knifemaker suicides

Ira,

Thank you for the courage to speak your heart and mind to us.
I applaud and salute you. I wish you and your family the absolute best.
 
what a very touching revelation !

I lost a uncle (severe physical injuries) and damn near lost my Dad (biochemical imbalance in brain chemistry) to self-elimination.

There is nothing, on the face of the earth, that makes life so hopeless that self-elimination is the cure !

I only hope that those suffering understand that intervention is critical and out there.
 
thanks you are a true man to post details of yourself on such a open forum. due to severe chronic pain from back injuries an nerve damage from diabeties i have had bouts with clinical depression for the last 20 years and i am only 43. i had my times playing with the revolver, spinning the cynlinder. finding knife making about 4 years back has been a real god sent gift. i have taken the meds to balance out the brain chemicals that get so over whelming from chronic pain from time to time so i just want anyone that reads this to know that they can contact me if you need someone to talk to.
 
I have been deliberatley resisting the temptation to post again to this thread. I wanted to see whether I would be flamed, or if some real men would step in here. Once again, the cream has risen to the top.

It is <i>exceedingly</i> difficult for the survivors to speak of the intimate personal torment they have suffered, and seen their loved ones suffer. Many of us carry residual burdens of guilt and shame at having caused others pain.

People looking in have no way of knowing what some of these men have overcome, simply to type in a thoughtful reply here. I couldn't be more pleased with you guys. If some of you knew the strength it actually requires, we'd all be smiling. I do, and you make me proud.

I left some loose ends, earlier, because I knew there were <i>real</i> heroes lurking who might thus be induced to come in here and tie them up in a bettter way. They've done so, and I think everyone is the better for having heard from them.

A tangent has developed and I hope to be indulged to say a few more things.

This was never about semantics. There are fundamental problems with calling clinical depression a mental illness. First among them, is the empirical evidence that it is not so. While some of the most visible symptoms do show themselves as "emotional instability," "strange behavior," and "irrational thought processes," the causes of the symptoms are medical (that is to say: physical). People who have survived will remember feeling like crap, almost all the time. Not to mention the sickening irony of being too effing tired to sleep and, just as commonly, oversleeping to the extreme.

Another problem with calling this a mental illness is the stigma that it triggers. It is profoundly sad that people will not seek treatment so that they can avoid the scorn and scrutiny they (often justifiably) think will come from being known as a "mental patient." Morever, until the very late 90's clinical depression was almost universally treated as a mental illness, and the physician who treated it medically was a rare bird, indeed.

The stigma of mental illness pervades American society, and people avoid talking about clinical depression for good reason. I, alone, have seen countless derisive references to Prozac on television - especially in comedy and late-night TV. This kind of ignorant derision keeps, nay - DRIVES, people away from proper treatment. How many times have you heard the insult "having a Prozac moment," in the last few years? <b>I hope someone else will talk about this, in this thread.</b> Prozac, alone, has saved hundreds of thousands of lives, marriages, families and careers.

The third, and most brutal problem caused by calling this a mental illness is that most insurance companies and HMO's thus escape paying claims for it. They are allowed to collect premiums from people who have clinical depression, but they will not pay for parts of the treatment. This is an established fact, but I am not going to talk about this last, any further. It is too important to let this discussion devolve into politics. If you can't get it out of your mind - please use my private email.

This was never about "feelings." It is about what we think. It is our thoughts that matter. People don't kill themselves because they feel bad. They go through with it because they literally and sincerely <i><b>THINK</b></i> they are: worthless, in too much agony, better off dead, an unbearable burden to those they love, and so on, and so on, and so on...

WHAT they think at these moments is not as important as THAT they think it. If you THINK that you are completely SCREWED, etc. go for help like you would go for help if you saw someone being murdered. Do not procrastinate. Do not worry that people with think you are a "mental patient."


Though I appreciate the rationale behind it, I do not agree that the solitary lifestyle of the knifemaker contributes, significantly to the frequency of suicide in the class. In fact, I tend to believe the controverse: that the lifestyle contributes to the overall health of the class.

My reasons for dissent are thus. First, the class is not large enough, in my opinion, from which to draw reliable statistical samples. We are left with anecdotal evidence which is inherently risky, and isn't evidence at all, but merely a bunch of anecdotes.

Second, were it fact that knifemakers are harmed by their relative isolation, we would, God forbid, see a lot more suicides than we do among knifemakers. Followed to its logical conclusion, this isolation would kill everyone if it were, by itself, harmful.

I think, instead, that knifemakers thrive emotionally, and intellectually in isolation. I have spoken to people here who profess to love it, and would have it no other way. To be free of the commentary of the ignoramus, the dead weight of the mediocre and the clutter of the uninspired...to receive the personal, and richly rewarding gratification when a piece is sold, collected, and loved...to appear at shows when it pleases them, and not when it does not...and so on.

Someone commented that every case is different, and that perhaps clinical depression is not always the cause. I will stipulate the "not always." But I hold to the established fact that clinical depression is a sinister illness which is far, far too often the cause. It is hell on earth. By comparison suicide looks like relief, which is why it often happens.

Look, I am only one guy, who will not sit idly by while people lament the unfortunate loss of suicide, and who then move on. I want to stimulate intelligent conversation about the cause and try to get help to people who need it. I don't know who needs it! But if enough people are educated about it, it shall become far more likely that they will overhear <i>intelligent comments</i> about it and seek help, without being ashamed of themselves.

How many of these replies start with, "I was not EVER going to post to this, but..."? My browser shows this thread has been viewed nearly 1200 times. Thank you, Blues, for letting it grow.
 
<b>...do not go quietly into that long goodnight,<br>Rage, rage against the dying of the light! - Dylan Thomas</b><p> This is one of the most well-loved verses of poetry in our language. No one knows if he was writing about depression, or not, but Dylan Thomas suffered from it, and ultimately died from it.<p>I wish this to inspire you.<p>Sometimes we are haunted by the things we've said and regret, or things those we love have said, but didn't mean. These words come alive in the pit of despair. The next time you're in the pit, these words might bring you back.:)
 
I am fortunate enough to not have known anyone close to me commit suicide. It is certainly a terrible force that compels one to end his own life, and no one has the right to judge such an unfortunate person, despite what bloat-bag Limbaugh has stated in the past.

Perhaps the saddest, most horrifying account I ever witnessed was a Dateline NBC or similar newsmag show interviewing the mother of the woman who had been stalking David Letterman. This woman was not only severely sick, being a schizophrenic, but she had lost two brothers from suicide caused by this mental illness. She eventually ended her own life on the railroad tracks one day. Incidentally, she suffered greatly from her psychosis, but she was able to endure enough to keep from taking her own life. It was only after she started taking a new medication that she committed suicide, as it had made her very depressed. Anyways, the mother was the very definition of human suffering, as you can imagine. Her deceased husband had also been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Just terrible. She did have one son who was normal and has survived.

I think it is necessary to label clinical depression as a mental illness, especially if it's sole cause is organic, and not related to social factors. Although the chemical imbalances that cause clinical depression are physical in origin, it is a mental illness nonetheless. Psychosis is also caused by chemical imbalances.
 
Wow....amazing thread! It does take tremendous strength to fight the inner battles of the human psyche. Many comments have been made about the "stigma" associated with labels such as "Mental Illness".

Historic concepts of "craziness", and even much of what still resides in the pages of revised diagnostic manuals, are certainly the antecedent to misunderstanding, unaccepting mind-sets, and a natural desire to avoid what is a very painful and often emotionally torturing subject.

In these few pages, we've really touched a topic rarely discussed in depth (excepting professions in the medical/psychological domain). The reasons for that have all been mentioned eloquently, so no need to expound.

I will conclude by saying I'm certainly proud to exchange information with those who took part in this group. It is much easier to simply move on to some pictures of nice knives, and cordial chit-chat, and I admit I moved on quickly when I first read the opening post. I think most of us have probably been touched either directly or peripherally by tragedy of this nature, so thanks to all that took time to respond no matter what your feeling. As with any topic, I truly think we all benefit from the exchange.





"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
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