Knifemaker's Anvil Question.

L6steel

L6steel

Joined
Sep 23, 1999
Messages
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I know this has been beaten to death but I'm gonna bring it up again.
Why does an anvil have to be made of hardenable steel?
Why wouldn't a chunk of mild steel, say 3" thick and 8" by 8", stood on edge in a 4" deep groove cut into a good solid section of oak log with a couple 1/2" bolts through it work? It would have plenty of mass under the impact area and since the steel you're hammering is red hot I don't see where the hardness would be a problem.
Ok Master Smiths, go ahead and take your whacks, kick me around some. I just had to ask it one more time. :D
 
Hi Michael,

Mild steel will work for a while but it will start to dish after a while. It will also give you a good workout as it doesn't rebound much.Plain old cast Iron anvils are common in days of old but the steel probably wasn't very tough either. I say , who cares? Do it anyway.

Mark
 
The way I understand it is that when the anvil is made of hardened material, it does not absorb the energy of the hammer blow. The hardened anvil allows the energy to be concentrated in the piece that is being worked. Mass is only part of the equation.

The anvil dishing/denting is also an issue. If the face of the anvil gets all dinged up, you will spend more time working out the mirrored dings from your blade. My anvil has a small amount of dish in it. I did not remove it because it helps me to straighten blades by negating the "spring back" effect of steel. Excessive dishing is not good.

An unhardened anvil will be functional, but just not efficient. Should work fine for you until you find/make a good hardened one.:)
 
I have heard of 'smiths welding or bolting a slab of hardened steel on top of a cast or soft steel anvil, also.
 
I had picked up a chunk of steel on one of the construction jobs I was on thinking it would make a halfway decent anvil. It was 3" thick and about a 12 X 12" square. I fastened it to a timber and tried it out. I forged a couple heats on it before I stopped. Night and day difference. I guess if a fellow has never used an anvil you could get by for awhile but since I already had a Trenton I knew the difference between forging and pumping iron. If your just going to use it everyonce in awhile it would be fine. To make a living useing it, no.....
 
Raymond,
"I knew the difference between forging and pumping iron."
That is a cool way of explaining the difference in hammer feel.
Enjoy, Ken
 
To beat another anvil issue to death, I haven't seen an anvil for sale in 5 years looking around here. They probably send them to the US. a new anvil costs 280 for 71#, 450 for 115, and so forth.

What is the minimum that makes sense for Knives?
If I spring for say the next size up whether that means going from 71-115, or 115-150, is there some point where all of a sudden you have the a whole lot more versatile product?

Which is better, single or double horn? Mostly thinking of knives, but you never know where this will end up (probably not horseshoes).

By the way, In the January 04 Blade, on page 41, there is a picture of some guys working at an anvil. Doesn't look terribly big to me. Anyone have any idea what size this one would be?
 
I learnt how to forge blades on a slab of steel 3 inch thick. 18 inches high and about 2.5 feet long. The guy who owned it also learnt how to forge on it. We used a 10 lb sledge hammer on it making damascus and axe heads. The owner Jim Steele went on to become the state rep for the guild.

He always wanted a real anvil and finnaly got one I now have 3.

I have a samll one 20 lb and they rang up to 219 lb The hard anvils are great you can feel the difference. You can also feel the difference between a anvil on a large wooden block verses a steel frame. Point is if you have a lump of steel use it. When you get the spare cash get an anvil. A good smith will be able to use a lump of steel even if he does not like to.

I have even made an anvil from a counter weight used on tilta doors for garages. They are 2.5 in square 2 feet long and 3 of them stacked together. Not my first choice but it was used when making damascus.
I was woried about stray blows on my cheap anvil. I stopped using it when I got better at aiming.

I have also seen pic's of indonesian blade smiths working on a 4 or 5 inch square block. Just takes skill.
Good luck have fun. If you have to pay for the lump of steel consider the difference in price for an anvil it may be worth saving a bit longer. I picked up my 219 lb anvil from a wanted to by add placed in the local paper. I got it for $80 that was a great bargan. It worked for me but no garentee.
 
I guarantee you WILL notice a big difference forging on a steel block vs. a hardened face anvil.

I started with an old band-saw anvil that was about 150 lb. I think it was something like 3.5" thick, 10" wide, and 28" long. It was dead soft cast steel...and it SUCKED! It was better than nothing though.

My current anvil is a Hercules 135 lb. model with EXCELLENT rebound. It was the hardest tool to find in my entire shop. If I had the $$$, I would buy the biggest one I could find. The bigger/better your anvil AND BASE, the more your hammer blows go into the steel. Don't forget, every time you hit the steel, the anvil is hitting back too. My anvil base is glued/nailed/stacked 3/4" high density particle board (11.5" square).

I wouldn't want anything less than 100 lb.

A horn isn't really that important. I just use hammers to manipulate everything on the sweet spot of the anvil.

When I get some more $ saved up, I'm going to put a want ad out in the local nickel for a 3-400 lb. anvil.

Nick
 
Jeff, Friend of mine had just got I believe the 260 pounder and has the 120 for sale of the same make. I'm not going to mention any names since I'm wanting that one for myself. I did get a chance to use the 120 that he has. The Roman style anvil really is a goodone for forging knives. I've done some huge bowies on my 120 Made in Sweden anvil. Bigger is alway better but not a necessity. I've never used anything smaller than 120 but wouldn't pass up a deal on a really good 85 pounder....
 
I agree, Ray. Besides, anythign bigger than my 260-pounder and I shoudl be getting a BULLHAMMER! yeehaa!
 
Jeff-

I totally agree. A friend of mine (not sure if Ray and I are talking about the same guy) just bought the mid-sized and is selling the 120. I would LOVE to own the Gladiator. I have been drooling over those anvils for a couple years now.

There is an article on the web-site about them building them, that is VERY COOL. The same info was layed out it Metal Fabricator some years back that was more thorough with the same pics (much clearer though).

Like they say, "You can have anything you want, you just need money." :D

Nick

Yea, I have to say I'd probably spring for a Turkish air hammer before I got another anvil. But the air hammer is a bunch of house payments, lol.
 
Great replies guys, outstanding!
Thanks for the info and your time!
I live about 50-75 miles from out in the boonies Alabama and Georgia so I know theres some old anvils that have been sittin in barns for eons. Just gotta get out there and find em.
 
If you are going to look for a good quality used anvil, ask everybody and their brother if they have one. Literally, ask everybody. Most people won't even know what you are talking about. I had to search for about 3 months to find mine.

I got a call one day from a guy that works in another plant across town. He said he heard that I was looking for an anvil and that he had one. He sent me some pictures, I went to his house and took a look, and then loaded it into my truck. It is a 152 pound Hay Budden, made in 1913, and I got it for $75.:D

Ask around, they are out there, just hard to find. Good luck.
 
You got a 152 lb Hay Budden for $75? You better keep an eye out for the Police, as you STOLE that one! :)
 
What kind of shape was the Hay Budden in? If it was in good shape I'll call the anvil police. The "Made in Sweden" anvil I got I paid 150 for plus it was exactly what I wanted for my demo anvil. Never told the fellow I bought it from I wouldn't have flinched if the price was double that. It was close to cherry when I got it. Heard it was used by the railroal in one of there blacksmith shops.
 
Nick, before you get a turkish hammer, lok into the Bullhammers They'll blow you away!
 
I have also used a Bull Hammer--very nice indeed. Turns out they also have financing. They are however, a bit light, the base seems to be hollow and rings like a horrible drum/gong with every hit. Also, they do not have a built in air compressor, so that must be factored into the price as well. Not sure about the Turkish hammers, except that Jerry Fisk has one and can't say enough good things about it. Check ebay right now too for a Sahiliner 110# from Germany.

John
 
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