Knifemaker's oddities or like watching people at the airport.

Fred.Rowe

Fred.Rowe

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
May 2, 2004
Messages
6,848
The comment from Nick Wheeler, posted on the Bubble Jig thread, brought about a moment of thoughtful reverie and I find his comparison worth closer inspection.:D

Knowing quite a number of makers, of all persuasions and with every conceivable approach, to their interpretation of perfection, I would hesitate to say, that there is but one way to approach, that search for perfection.

There are methods and techniques that are better suited than others to bringing about, the object of perfection, but there is no one way of bringing it about.
It depends on what you have to work with; one dull file and a piece of sandpaper or a shop like Nick or I has.:thumbup:You and I are very fortunate.
Its not any single action or method or technique, that brings about the beautiful examples we see on this forum. I can spend hours looking at Bruce Bumb's pistols or Raymond Rybar's damascus, figuring out how they do it.
Its the inventiveness and skill of the maker him or herself that makes a great knife or a great anything.

When I look at the knifemaking community I see the most complex assortment of skills and creativity amassed any where.

When I observe people in line at the airport, I see a whole lot of stressed out folks.:eek::D

This thread is not meant to rekindle the age old hand made thing, but rather to compliment on how diverse knifemakers really are.

I will close with one of my favorite quotes, from Frank Zappa:

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.

Lets hear it for innovation:thumbup::thumbup::cool::thumbup:



Fred
 
I'm all for deviation! Wait What! lol but honestly sometimes the most simplist way is still the best way... it seems with progress comes complexity.

Jason
 
JasonSCarter said:
I'm all for deviation! Wait What! lol but honestly sometimes the most simplist way is still the best way... it seems with progress comes complexity.

Jason
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I believe you have made a good observation; complexity comes along with progress.
But that is a good thing. Makers that stay at this long enough and attain a high skill level, attempt and produce some of the finest pieces. Progress!

I know Tai Goo makes some of the most stunning pieces with some pretty primitive equipment; but his skill and technique are not simple or primitive at all, the techniques he employs are highly advanced; its just his equipment that is basic. [ Hope you don't mind me using you as an example, Tai.]

The knives I make today, I would not have attempted five years ago; I guess thats a sign I am progressing.:)

Thanks for your comments, Fred
 
I agree.... the uniqueness of a maker and his work is what stands out in my eyes. I look at a "first timer's" knife the same way I look at a seasoned maker. How did they do it? What were they thinking?

There is room for complexity and simplicity in our community.... sometimes, right next to eachother on the table.


Rick
 
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

George Bernard Shaw

I saw that quote for the first time a few years ago, and it had the ring of truth. Every time a project is started to build or modify a tool, make a knife, create a work of art, whatever..., it's due to the desire of an unreasonable person to have, or make, something that's better or different than what can be obtained in the market.

And perfection is a moving target for unreasonable people. The better an artist/craftsperson gets at doing something, whatever their tools and methods are, the more aware they become of how they want to improve the next one they make...even when there are no flaws in the product.
 
Magnussen said:
I agree.... the uniqueness of a maker and his work is what stands out in my eyes. I look at a "first timer's" knife the same way I look at a seasoned maker. How did they do it? What were they thinking?

There is room for complexity and simplicity in our community.... sometimes, right next to eachother on the table.


Rick
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I agree whole heartedly. If it is done well there is little difference.

Fred
 
People aslo have varied ideas of what perfection is. I made some hollow ground knives where I intentionally washed out the grind lines. My thinking is that a crisp grind line is actually a point of resistance when cutting. I thought by rounding that off and smoothing it out it would actually make the knife cut better. But the first thing everybody said was "you washed out the grind lines" and viewed it as a flaw.
 
Magnussen said:
Did anybody agree with your reasoning? I do. If it is done deliberately and I don't agree with it, I call it a difference in taste, not a flaw.... that ridiculous.


Rick
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Some agree with my reasoning when I explain it, others don't. I had some very well known knifemakers criticize my work for doing it. Straight and crisp grind lines are what many look for when evaluating a knife.

I have no argument with straight and even because that is a measure of the knifemakers skill especially when grinding freehand. But crisp and sharp grind lines are putting aesthetics ahead of function IMHO. I have gone back to doing it that way because that's what people want.
 
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Good Thread already! very good points by all! Mike, I never thought of that about the grindlines! your absolutly right!

Jason
 
Mike Carter Custom Knives said:
Some agree with my reasoning when I explain it, others don't. I had some very well known knifemakers criticize my work for doing it. Straight and crisp grind lines are what many look for when evaluating a knife.

I have no argument with straight and even because that is a measure of the knifemakers skill especially when grinding freehand. But crisp and sharp grind lines are putting aesthetics ahead of function IMHO. I have gone back to doing it that way because that's what people want.
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I believe that a sharp plunge cut is weaker than one with a larger radius or smooth transition.
 
Great post Fred!

It is funny what a diverse group knifemakers are... and what a talented lot. As I was getting ready for the San Antonio ABS Expo, I was telling my friends that I skated into the show 7 years ago, and that there are truly some of the most gifted, prolific makers in the world there. My friends thought I was trying to be modest, but what I was trying to do, is point out the immense skill level that many of those smiths have.

There is such a broad range of skills that an accomplished maker has to posses, it's mind boggling. What other discipline (in hand work) requires such a broad range of knowledge and skill?

And the backgrounds are fascinating as well. Everything from the true hill-billy, to the retired rocket scientists....

Crazy stuff.

Thanks Fred!!! :thumbup: :)
 
Years ago I used to say, "If I just had this tool I could--, now I look back at some of the blades made 1000 years ago and think if they could do it I can. I read once in a caption in Blade on Ed Fowler that he was chasing a scratch. It is the pursuit for perfection. Some of you may remember Terry Primos. I met him at a a local show and he came and asked me how I did some things and I invited him to my shop. At that time all he used to make a knife was a file, drill, vice, sandpaper and a charcoal grill with a hairdryer and magnet. Well, he made fine knives then.
 
Since this thread is not meant to discuss the meaning on "perfection", but the diversity of people. I think that is in a way describing the different meanings of perfection. Say for instance you have one knife maker that settles on a certain steel and a certain style of knife and never varies from this his entire career. He wants to achieve perfection and he may be chasing that one scratch at the end of his career. While on the other hand you have a maker that wants to try every steel and style know to man. In the end you will see his perfection may be the fit and finish of all his different styles. That being said, perfection like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
 
R. Mark Lee said:
Since this thread is not meant to discuss the meaning on "perfection", but the diversity of people. I think that is in a way describing the different meanings of perfection. Say for instance you have one knife maker that settles on a certain steel and a certain style of knife and never varies from this his entire career. He wants to achieve perfection and he may be chasing that one scratch at the end of his career. While on the other hand you have a maker that wants to try every steel and style know to man. In the end you will see his perfection may be the fit and finish of all his different styles. That being said, perfection like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
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Well said.

I also think perfection, although a noble quest, is unobtainable. I have seen some stunning, incredible craftsmaship in knives. Some that people would call perfect. But I have never heard a knifemaker say their knife was perfect. In hindsight there is always something they would do differently or better next time. If fact, I think it would be kind of a downer to say that's it, that's as good as I will ever be able to do. That would sure take the wind out of my sails anyway.
 
Mike Carter Custom Knives said:
Well said.

I also think perfection, although a noble quest, is unobtainable. I have seen some stunning, incredible craftsmaship in knives. Some that people would call perfect. But I have never heard a knifemaker say their knife was perfect. In hindsight there is always something they would do differently or better next time. If fact, I think it would be kind of a downer to say that's it, that's as good as I will ever be able to do. That would sure take the wind out of my sails anyway.
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I'm with you; its striving for perfection that is important not getting there.
Its about being inspired to do your best work at all times; not settling for less than what your skill level is capable of.

I equate it to the attitude in the martial arts world; the focus is to seek perfection, attaining it is impossible.


Fred
 
Wonderful. There were so many comments I wanted to quote that I just gave up. This is one of the best threads I've seen here. Thanks Fred! You're my main man and always will be. :)

For years I've said that if it weren't for diversity, we'd still be living in caves and chasing fire. It's the people who are different that enable progress. The 'masses' don't innovate.

You guys just blow me away. There are some who find the diversity in this forum to be a detraction - and honestly, some of that diversity can be. But I think this is the best place that anyone who wants to make a knife can begin. I learned what little I know that's of any value, right here.

Mike I agree with you wholeheartedly - I hope I never realize that I've just done my best work. Certainly the quality of my work ebbs and flows, but I think there's steady progress. I hope there always will be. I'll never equal what even some of the newbies do here but for me the satisfaction is in the doing; I always feel a certain anticlimax when a project is completed. I think that's why I don't own many of my knives or other stuff. :)

I think what makes Shop Talk in particular so valuable for me is that very multiplicity of approach and skill level that the large number of members provides. Other, more specialized or simply smaller forums can be deeply valuable too, but there's something here that keeps my attention. There's just so much to take advantage of! Sometimes it's hard to decide where to divide my time between learning and making.

But right now - it's off to the shop. I have a little blade to HT this morning. I'm psyched.
 
Great topic Fred, and some great points!

I think diversity is what makes the world go around. I'm am against any type of standardization in the arts, because it apposes and hinders individually. No two people are the same...

However, I don't see my work as striving for "perfection". I gave that idea up a long time ago, because people aren't perfect. I'm not perfect. I see it as striving to express intellect, emotion, and experience... or "personal expression". It's an attempt at the sincere communication of the very essence of one's self...

To me the measure of success for a work of art is in the degree or strength of the response (intellectual and/or emotional) to the work,... not in the degree of perfection.
 
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