Knifemaking and idiot-lawsuits.

worst yet....a knifemaker sued the company that makes burr king 960s and tru grit who sold it to him....so the company stopped making them....small potatoes to a big company...although i have heard they have started up again with the 960.....john mallet had to fly back to mass. a few times to testify in the case.....whowuddathunkit?

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http://www.mayoknives.com


 
Knave: I am familiar with the judicial system on both sides of the border. It's worse than you suspect.
 
HJK:
I suspect California skews the picture.
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Seriously, there may be a geographic element to this. Where I come from, plaintiffs fight an uphill battle. Our summary judgment standard is tougher than the feds' and we still don't see many ridiculous cases being won. Having said that, I am disturbed by the class-action trend lately where they seem to be trying to create whole new theories of liability.

P.S. It's pretty bad when lawyers are going after me too.
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Originally posted by James Mattis:
When I have a table at a knife show, I put band-aids out in front, to remind people that we live in an orderly universe.

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I like that! How about adding some mini-sink to drain the first blood?
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K.
 
Knave,
The Class Action, at least in it's expansive form, is a relatively new phenomenon in my jurisdiction, Ontario, because of a recent revision to our Rule of Civil Procedure. You know what drives the proliferation of class action suits? The huge fees available to the lawyers. There are other factors, but that's the biggest factor, by far. The legal creativity which even the mediocre lawyer will employ in the service of a potentially huge contingent fee is one of the wonders of nature - or one of the terrors. The Summary Judgement procedure isn't much of a shield because our Supreme Court and Courts of Appeal have made it clear that novel theories of liability, and questions of credibilty, should not be adjudicated at that stage, or at least should be given a very wide degree of latitude. The real control is supposed to be at the certification stage, because these types of actions are supposed to be reviewed and approved by a Judge in advance of their institution. It's hard to see how, as far as an examination of the merits are concerned, the certification test can be more restrictive than one for summary judgement.
And the cases that do get thrown out or cannot, for financial or other reasons, proceed, often are the ones that should. But that's another thread, or another long paper, which I don't want to write and, believe me, you don't want to read
 
One thing that would stop most litigious nonsense is something called “ loser pays “ that is , if you file suit and loose , you pay the other guy’s legal expenses and court costs . We will never enact though . It makes too much sense .
 
After MacDonalds was sued and lost cause there coffee was to hot (DUH) Does it really surprise anyone here on the idiocy of some law suits that happen in this country? In this day and age if some jerk can get away with suing and figures he has a good chance of winning regardless of the stupidity and total lack of common sense on his part he will do it. Remember when huge sums of money are involved any pride a person has in himself goes right out the window.
Bob
 
Wrongs happen, and consumers should be able to recover their damages.

What distorts the picture is the practice of imposing punative damages. As far as I am concerned the manufacturer should be made to pay for all direct and consequential damages if their product when used as expected causes injury to someone. However, anything involving punishment should be handled under criminal, not civil, law.

The best way to stop some executive from putting us all at risk is by letting him know that he is putting his own hide at risk. Civil penelties can be too easily covered in his business case.
 
I'm not sure this is going anywhere productive, but I will observe that the American Bar Association, representing all specialties of the legal profession, has opposed tort reform at every turn. And in most cases, the very people we would have "fix" this system, namely judges and the legislatures, are themselves attorneys.

And yes, class action suits are most often initiated entirely by attorneys who seek out alledgedly injured parties to join in the action (as in the legal profession versus Dow Chemical, among others). And is there anyone who thinks that people who smoke or the governments who tax and even subsidize tobacco are not solely resposible for the consequences of their own actions. (I smoke.) And does any rational person think that guns or the people who make them are responsible for crimes? And, and, and...

The defense rests.

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Jerry Hossom
knifemaker
www.hossom.com


 
HJK:
I agree with you. It IS the national plaintiff's firms driving the class-action trend. They are greedy and don't care what the consequences are and what precedents they are setting. What I'm afraid of is a severe backlash where we go too far in the opposite direction in trying to fix the problem. I have strong reservations about the "loser pays" idea because I think many people will then be too frightened to file valid claims. Corporations might then become lax in their efforts at creating safe products (anyone remember the Pinto?).

One last thing: I get the impression that Mr. Hossom believes that all attorneys think the same way and blindly follow the ABA party line. If not, I apologize. However, it's not true. Hell, look at HJK's posts.
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I don't really think that mine are that extreme either.

 
Several have asked "what kind of idiot would do something that stupid?" Here is a case of someone who should have known better.

As an active duty Army Officer, I worked in R&D for a while. One of my peers was developing the "Hasty Shower" for the field troops. It was basically a three foot square wet wipe! During a project review, a two star general (Major General) roasted this Captain for putting instructions on the package for use of this big moist towel. He thought any field soldier ought to be able to figure it out, "after all, Captain, we're not a bunch of dummies just because were in the Infantry!" The Captain put his career on the line when he asked the General how he would use it (the General hadn't at that time read the instructions, only noticed they were there). The General stated, "I would pull off my boots and socks and start by cleaning my feet, then drop my trousers and clean around my private parts and then...." You guessed it, he realized he was heading for his face and neck with a big moist towelette he had just wiped his funky rump with. There wasn't a snicker in the room--generals have the habit of roasting subordinates. He sat down and told the Captain to resume the briefing--no more conversation about the instructions--they stayed!

Bruce Woodbury
 
A little common sense. For those out there who bemoan the McDonald's case as the prime example of frivelous lawsuits, a little background.
  1. McDonalds had been told, repeatedly that their coffee was being served too hot, and to reduce the temperature.
  2. The coffee was hot enough to give the woman second degree burns through her clothes.
  3. The woman had medical bills in excess of $100,000 (maybe a little medical price reform is needed too)
    [/list=a]
    I am not a lawyer, and I hate watching people being rewarded for stupidity, but there was nothing wrong in that woman suing McDonalds. The orginal judgement was rediculous, but that was not the fault of the injured woman, it was not the fault of her attorney. It was the 12 people sitting in the box who decided upon the amount.
    Dave

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    Remember, signals that are timed for 35 mph, are also timed for 70 mph.
 
Dave
Why would hot coffee be an issue to begin with? You boil water and add coffee and presto hot coffee. Anyone with half a brain knows that the coffee they are ordering is going to be hot unless of course they order iced coffee.I'm sorry but the fact that it even became a law suit amazes me. Because of that suit more bizzare frivolous suits are making the newspapers on a daily basis.I'm sorry but the only common sense needed here should have been displayed by the women. The same with knives if you are smart enough to know what a knife is then you are smart enough to know it's sharp.
Bob


[This message has been edited by Strider (edited 02-07-2000).]
 
Strider, there is a difference between "hot" and "scalding." Further, if I recall correctly, the woman suffered some 3rd degree burns. I would also like to say, before you all jump on me about how she shouldn't have been driving with coffee, I think we have all been guilty of that. Having beverages in cars is so common, we have cupholders. Anyway, as kkimo stated, McDonald's had been warned that their coffee was DANGEROUSLY hot. Strider, if you want to talk about common sense, I think it's common sense not to serve scaldingly hot coffee at a drive-through...
 
Every time I visit US I got amazed what BS some people can figure out. It is no surprise for me that you can find notes about knives being sharp.

While visiting US you will find out that pizza is hot, when you pull it out from the owen, that supermarket emplyees should wash their hands after using restroom (and that they have instructions how to do it correctly), that the electricity is dangerous if you touch bare wires, that ... insert any common thing....

Once I saw a joke (cartoon) in Newsweek or similar magazine: There was a big poster at one US airport and it says: WELCOME TO USA!! During your stay here you can encounter things that are: hot, sharp, dangerous, can bite, fall on you etc, etc. US government is not responsible for any injury caused by such a things.

Then I realized - it was not joke - it was reality.

David

PS: If you find that joke, please send it to me.

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DIVERTI NESCIO

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My Photopoint pictures
 
The question would be: what we mere people, knife nuts, whatever CAN DO to stop that. Probably not a lot right now, except for talking about it and pointing out stupidity. May look as not much. But let me tell you this: the legal system is one thing, but society's acceptance of this totally ridiculous crap is the other.

Judges would have much easier time throwing ridiculous suits right out of the court if they were aware of lack of acceptance in the society for it. To say nothing that jury should be throwing it right away if the judge didn't. But that takes bringing those subjects up and educating people (don't confuse with throwing flames
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).

I'd also risk saying that most of people think right, but they just don't express it. On the other hand all these ultra-liberals are very verbal, and guess what: squeeky wheel gets the grease.

L8r,
Kris


 
Last night on Jay Leno's Headlines he showed an ad with a coupon. To the right of the coupon was this.
The advertiser and publisher of this ad is not responsible for the misuse of scizzors or damages caused by scizzors or any other sharp instrument when cutting out the coupon at left.

Man this is getting stupid!

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Mike Turber
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Y'know...I was standing at the office one day, laughing at the stupidity of the necessity of putting an icon on our shredder that basically informs the user, "Don't stick your tie in this device." I was having a pretty good laugh about it, until my buddy reminded me of the sobering reality, "If they put a warning about it on there, then it usually means somebody's done it."

It was at that moment that I was struck by just how hopelessly idiotic a frightening portion of the populace at large is. Since then, I've sort of started 'collecting' warning images off of everyday devices that I see. Many of them are quite amusingly grisly, when one actually looks at them objectively. On a plotter at our office, for instance, is blazoned a rather graphic image of a hand caught in the rollers, being cartoonishly mangled, complete with blood spurting out. One can almost hear the screaming.

If we have to do that with something as ostensibly innocuous as a plotter, one shudders to imagine what would be 'necessary' for knives...


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An optimist thinks he lives in the best of all ossible worlds...a pessimist is sure of it.
 
Knave
You buy a hot cup of coffee put it in your lap drive away hit a bump and spill it "ouch" hot coffee in your lap and a wet stain on your pants. Now the next day you do the same thing but now you say "HHHMMM" I think that this particular coffee feels a tad hotter on my leg then yesterdays hot coffee. So you imediatley go looking for a lawyer? I realize from your profile that you are a lawyer. So say the guy comes to you with this story of spilt coffee. Would you laugh and say tough #$%^ pal now maybe you will learn not to do that again or do you rub your hands together and say sit right done and tell me more about this terrible hot coffee episode? All I'm trying to say is that we as a nation are turning into a bunch of finger pointing irresponsible babies who know that no matter how irrational and off the wall a semi tragic episode is we know that there will be a lawyer and a judge and a jury that just might decide that you are entitled to enough money so you never have to work for the rest of your life. Sort of a fixed lottery for some. And Knave I am not singling you out cause you are a lawyer I am just generalizing .As a matter of fact I would never hesitate to hire a lawyer who is a fellow knife knut.
Bob
 
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