Knifemaking, art or craft?

Joined
May 5, 2001
Messages
35
I haven't been here long enough to know if this question has ever been discussed.
When is knifemaking and art, and when is it a craft?
The first knife of a type that I make (the prototype), that is art. The second, and thereafter, is just copies. They may be better in quality, but they still are copies. Is that craft?
Artistry is creation. Craftsmanship is copying, even if you are copying your own work.

Is this correct?

Where does one draw the line?
 
I feel that you are a artist with every knife that you make.Unless after that first prototype you are having all the parts pre cut and made for you to just assemble,then it is nothing more than production...
Knifemaking is a specific CRAFT in itself and it takes a artist to do this craft .
Just my opinions :)
Bruce
 
As I see it:

Artistry is vision, craftsmanship is execution.

Making multiple well-crafted copies of your first wonderful knife doesn't mean that the "art" has been used up; the vision has been preserved through good craftsmanship.

I've seen a few knifemakers whose artistic qualities are higher than their execution. Most of the time I see knifemakers whose execution is a higher level than their artistic vision--which stands to reason, since craftsmanship can be learned and refined easier than artistic vision.

Having both artistic vision and craftsmanship in large amounts is what makes for a great knifemaker.
 
I agree it takes a craftsman to make a knife, even if it is the same knife multiple times. You will admit that Chris Reeves or Darrel Ralph are craftsmen althiugh they often make the same pattern of knife. And every knifemaker has some artistry in their souls, or they wouldn't be a knife maker. I can't begin to describe the awesome pieces of art I have seen, they just take my breath away sometimes.
 
I don't think you can have one with out the other on an ongoing basis. A piece of art could be produced in a one off with little craft involved but I think would be a rarity. To be able to produce your artistic vision correctly one has to be a craft mster. I don't think the knives of Don Fogg would have the emotional appeal they have if Don was not a master of his craft.

ghostdog
 
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Let's define first. . .

1. art; skill acquired by experience or study. . .the use of skill and imagination in the production of things of beauty.

- artisan; a skilled manual worker.

- artist; one who practices an art.

2. craft; art, skill, a occupation requiring special skill.

- craftsman; a skilled artisan.


Hhhhmmmmmmmm. . . :D
 
Is a singer an Artist, of just the songwriter? Is the singer an Artist only on opening night, or only when doing the initial recording of a piece of music?

When someone takes a piece of steel and turns it into a blade, has he not created something? Has he not “executed” his art?

I am a stagehand, a craftsman, and an artist. Don’t let definitions put limits on your soul.
 
I think the craft of knifemaking is an Art. All knives made by one person are expressions of that persons skills, mind, and heart. My second post here at BFC (almost two years ago now) is posted at http://www.knifeart.com under the title Collecting Knives As Art

Although Larry Connelly paired my words with a picture of Darrel Ralph's high Art creation, the Sword of Michael, I was not talking about what are commonly called Art knives. I was talking about all handmade knives. There is Art is the simplest of handmade knives. Always.

Paracelsus
 
Actually, don't let the word "definitation" limit your soul. :rolleyes:

A definition is nothing more than a simple explanation in understandable terms. . . Besides, ya gotta start somewhere !
 
Originally posted by GigOne
A definition is nothing more than a simple explanation in understandable terms. . . Besides, ya gotta start somewhere !

Yes, I can see how simple an explanation we have recieved for Custom Knife.
 
Viper
Just want to clear up the arts and crafts comments.

Form me you can order any knife you want.
I am A CUSTOM knifemaker - designer.

I do produce model knives if the knife is popular.
Each one is different in some way from the next and they are all built in my shop with the parts and pieces that I make personally. (except pivot parts and screws)

I forge damascus and carbon blades when there is a call for it and the client wants a one of a kind.


I make special and one of a kind knives of all types. I am open to any design that the client wants.

I prefer to be put in a catagory of a REAL CUSTOM knife-maker who has not found a knife that he will not build within reason. I dont feel that is making the same knife over and over do you ?

Please take a look at my web page. The ART KNIVES
Section should explain what I mean.
BTW:
I have folks at my shop all the time. Your welcome here to build a knife anytime. We'll Get dirty!
 
Sorry. . .I thought that the question was , "is knifemaking and art, and when is it a craft?"

Not of how simple an explanation we have recieved for Custom Knives. . .

Guess is depends on your outlook. . .or play on simple words.

Yet. . .no matter how simple or complex the defination or words ~ we still crave the simpliciy of metal and natural (and at time unnatural) materials. ;)

Amazing is it not ? :rolleyes:

Besides. . .
^
l
l
l
l
 
I do one art/craft show per year and am well respected in that community because they recognize the work that goes into even the plainest knife but I just can't get over them referring to my shop as my "studio". I get the giggles every time someone uses that word.
 
Thanks for everyone's input on the subject. I have been having problems getting myself to make copies of my work as it bores my out of my skull. (I am therefore the world's first living brain donor!!);) Even worse is when a client brings me a picture of someone else's knife and asks me if I can make one exactly the same.

Making small changes, adding a bit here and there such as a bit of filework or a different texture does help, but I am at my happiest when I can make a knife from blank paper to completion.

Maybe it is like asking Da Vinci to do the Mona Lisa all over again but with redder lips. Or asking Michaelangelo to redo the David statue but this time David must have an e.....:D !!

Maybe it is in the way I market myself. As Custom maker I have to do what the client wants. As artist I want to do what I want, and that does not include making the same design over and over again.
 
I'm not sure that I can accept the statement that there is all art in handmade knives, Paracelsus. I wish it were true, but it is not, IMO. To say that it is, is to extend the definition of art to include all craft items. I think that art is a subjective experience of appreciation. As an old lit major, I believe that the novel may be the highest art form. There are some fantastic pieces of art in the library, but the vast majority of the books there are not books with which I associate the word art in conjunction.

Personally, I think genuine art is relatively rare. A great many people practice things which could be examples of art, but which fall short of that rather lofty description. From my perspective, art is much more an occasion of vision, in one form or another, made real through creation of something. Admittedly many forms of art require tremendous physical gifts. Painting and sculpture are 2 prevalent forms of art. I don't understand much about sculpture, so it often is lost upon me. But, for example, virtually every painting I've seen by Monet and Pissaro just knocks me out. They are phenomenal pieces of art, IMO. But, I’ve gone to more than one shopping mall with paintings crowding the mall space, and not been moved by a single painting to the point of thinking I could call it art.

One other part of art, IMO, is that there is an element of uniqueness. In knife making, making knives with a “face” is often talked about.While I tend to view most of the knives and those who made them that are talked about in such language as artistic, there are a few glaring exceptions. The knife makers I tend to see as most artistic are those whose designs are not only artistic, but essentially look different from those of their peers as well as other knives they have designed.

Along that line, I was startled by Viper using Darrel Ralph as an example of a craftsman. While I acknowledge that he is a one-man band of talents and skills that make him a supreme craftsman, I nevertheless think of him as one of those few makers who exhibits a great deal of artistic ability in his designs.

Craftsmanship is extremely important in the world of knife making. As someone pointed out earlier, there are a goodly number of extremely good craftsmen/craftswomen who make knives. But, only a few of them produce art, at least on a regular basis, IMO. I am a person who sees a great deal of simplicity in the best art. So, I do agree that a simple fixed blade without bolsters can indeed exemplify the best of art in the world of knifemaking. Still, I think that great skill at one or more aspect of knife making is too often confused with art. I guess the best example I can use is engraving.

I know there are knife makers who are extremely talented engravers. I’ve seen knives that were literally covered in intricate engraving done by the maker, that have been referred to as pieces of art in one or another magazine. In only a few, quite rare occasions have I perceived such knives as being works of art. Even if the engraving itself is very artistic, it doesn’t often transform a knife into a piece of art, IMO. Engraving has little, if anything, to do with the essence of any knife, it's functionality.

Sorry to be so long-winded. I tend to be frustrated when things I don’t perceive to be art are labeled as such, and at least as much so when genuine art is missed by the majority of observers.

Maybe all I've been trying to say is that true art trancends craftmanship.
 
Bugs
I feel that nothing is NEW.

We all draw on history. If you look in books the designs in everything from art to automobiles all come from line and curves from the past.
They may not be exact to history, but they are used as a vehicle to produce new designs.
 
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