• The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
    Price is $300 $250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
    Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.

  • Today marks the 24th anniversary of 9/11. I pray that this nation does not forget the loss of lives from this horrible event. Yesterday conservative commentator Charlie Kirk was murdered, and I worry about what is to come. Please love one another and your family in these trying times - Spark

Knives and marketing(mostly for the newbies)

Ebbtide said:
Sorry, but no. The purpose of marketing is not to decieve.
It is to sell product.
It is to gain market share.
It is to brand the product with the company.
The purpose of marketing is to fulfill a consumer's percieved need.

How does tobacco marketing fit in to this "advertising is goodness and light" world view you have?

As far as your Buck example above, only the knifeknuts would percieve Buck's 420HC as inferior.

People are too stupid to tell they get a poor quality product?

The majority of sales go to everyday Joes that need a knife and recognize the Buck name (branding/marketing) and the steel will be plenty good for them.

There's the attitude I expected, "They're stupid they deserve to be scammed" People who don't know better are open season!

This comes from a guy with 30 years in 'the ad game':D


A simple analogy applies, and your contempt for the consumer just proved it, If truth and honesty were the bright center of the universe, Advertising would be the furthest point from that center.
 
Kohai999 said:
A lot of what I read in the General discussion forums seems to concern marketing of knives, and other objects of interest, and expectations and realizations of those expectations.

Marketing is an extremely important portion of making knives, facilitating the manufacture of a knife ,through to the sale of the knife to the end user.

Some marketing is brash and bold, a la' Cold Steel and Lynn Thompson's, shall we say, unique approach.

Some marketing is very "user friendly" shall we say, maybe like Buck or Spyderco. What could make more sense, or be less sheeple threatening than a slogan like "All of God's creatures have knives"?

The problem with marketing, is that it ties a lot to identity of the end user, and can be confusing in its' own right.

When Lynn started making the tanto, he contracted with Buck to make the blades. That was a good move, because it would yield a quality product. Then he made a bad move, and started running ads, mentioning features of the tanto like "armor piercing", which made the knives look less like good defensive weapons, and more like thuggish weapons for offensive use, which Buck took offense to, and stopped making the tanto blades for CS.

FWIW, Bob Lum designed the first Americanized tanto, which he adapted from an armor piercing aikuchi from the medieval Japan period. He has never gotten very much credit for this, but it is the truth. Lynn adapted the design to manufacturing and ran with it, and the rest is history

Until you buy and use a knife for a long period of time, you never really know if it works for your purposes.

Then Hollywood gets mixed up into it, and everything becomes REALLY confusing.

The Rambo Series of knives by Gil Hibben by United Cutlery is probably the most sold, not regularly used model of knife in the history of production knives. Seriously, even though they look cool, how many people use the sawback spine on a knife? Carrying a commando wire saw, or even a hacksaw blade in your kit bag seems to make so much more sense. This being said, I will bet that the #1 knife sold by TOPS is the Wilderness Tracker.

It makes a lot of people feel like Rambo, to hold one, and imagine adventures and exotic locations, and if you are serving up a Big Mac, working the daily grind, with mouths at home to feed, you can use all the escapist thoughts your mind can hold.

I guess the thing that bothers me, and my point is that what you are using the knife for and what you expect from it should be rooted in as much reality as you can stand.
All the new steels are really cool, and it is always a good thing to want something better, but the 420 mod that Buck uses is not a horrible steel, and has an excellent heat treat, and works for most of the uses that someone can come up with. When I was in the Navy, the bosun's mates used Buck 110's with reshaping of the tips to chisel points, because that is what they had access to, and used. And they worked fine. It does not mean that there were not better knives out there, it means that this is what most of them used, could afford, and that made sense

I have carried a Benchmade 710 as my primary blade for over 5 years. It has been used and abused, even by most standards here on the BladeForums, and has not let me down. I purchased it because Bill McHenry and Jason Williams are friends, and for that matter, so is Les DeAsis, and I wanted to support them. I have found it to be the perfect EDC knife for me, because it fits the bill, not because of any hype surrounding it. Although there can be plenty of hype.

I also EDC a Victorinox Climber, a modified Benchmade model B, a Bill Ruple 2 blade trapper, a Chuck Gedraitis single blade slip joint in damascus, and a Benchmade auto Benchmite. That is right, I carry 6 knives, and I use about 3 of them every day. My wife thinks it is a bit excessive, and it may be, but works for my uses

My point in this ramble is that if you have an idea of what you want, try to handle it at the store or gun show, and ask yourself what you need it to do. Research the steels and materials, and see if that knife works for you. It really does not matter if an engineer designed the knife, or a cowboy, or a SEAL, it matters mostly that it works for you.

Part of the process that is most fun is figuring out what you really want and THEN buying it. Regret is what happens when you buy what you THINK you need, getting caught up in all the hype, and then have something that does not work the way that you wanted it to.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

excellent post.

I think that people who care about the knives that they use experience a learning curve. they start with crap, move up the ladder to the high-priced super knives, and eventually settle on something that may not be top of the line but does everything they need it to do. there are so many different aspects of knife using, i.e. handle comfort, edge retention, ease of sharpening, corrosion resistance, etc. that without handling and using a variety of knives, one will never know what is good for them.

my advice for people thinking of buying that 'one' knife is to buy many, use many, and select a good compromise between the features that you find you need most.

i carry a one handed lockback of some kind every day, a spyderco native usually, except at work on the boat, a byrd raven. I also carry a swiss army knife, the model depending on what i think i'll need for the day, but most often a minimalist SAK. I have a ladybug on my keychain and some times i'll carry another sak or lockback as backup for the others.

again kohai, excellent post.

pete
 
Just don't forget the hype doesn't begin and end with production knives. It is just as bad if not worse with custom knives. The only thing with custom knives, is there is so much ego involved, custom knife buyers not only believe a maker's hype, but help promote it.

On the general forums, people at least have the guts to take on some of the hype of sebenzas, striders, tops etc. On the custom forums, you try to point out some hype with a maker, you'll get flamed, shouted down and the moderator's will shut it down. The reasons being, "don't want to hurt the business of a 'good guy' (read crony)" or "don't insult someone's (read crony) taste just because it's different then yours."

One good example of the way hype is kept alive with customs is the way noone will talk straight and name names about midtech "custom" knives or "custom" knives made in shops with multiple workers that have a single man's name on them, although the guy hasn't finished a knife from start to finish in years, it's all done by shop workers. Take a look at Mike Franklin's website if you want to see some interesting views on how to pick a knifemaker.
 
Holy Cow Guys and Gals,

This is getting too deep.
Marketing is all around us. Every tv commercial that hits us. The "wonder knives " that cut bricks and last forever.
You can not believe everything you read or see or hear. There is no truth in advertizing anymore.... in fact is there truth in anything anymore ????
our politicians, our gas prices , etc.... you get my drift.

I read all the mags.. before I buy I do some lookin and asking before I spend my money. Thats how I found this place, over the course of time I have asked many a question about peoples opinions on a certain knife.

I hope I can trust you guys and gals.

Another point I want to make..
sometimes we tend to be knife snobs. You know what I mean.
But my best bud loves the Rough Rider knives I get for him. 3 blade stockman, he uses it and uses it and uses it
Cuts plastic ties, blade goes down the throat of a carburator cleans his finger nails... Then I reprofile the blade then sharpen it on my sharpmaker and away he goes again....
I got a Rough rider Trapper on my desk top all day long to open mail etc.
nice looking knife.....
But my EDC in my pocket everday usually spyderco or Kershaw...
But I got a Camillus trapper I carry sometimes
Or a helle 4 " fix blade.. Or a Buck 110 (older model).. when I'm camping.

oHHH I always carry my leatherman sideclip always never never without ( except on the airplane )

I am a snob I dont doubt it I like a steel that holds a edge and sharpens to where I can pop hair off my arm..... I really like my spydercos...

But I have been around the block a few times

A friend of mine knows I got a few knves
he gave me a 5 dollar piece of S---t
A gift ....... he told me it was a collectors item...
I thanked him several times stuck it in my drawer.... And there it will stay..
I'm a little off subject.....
Let me try to get back on.....
part of me feels hey what ever knife turns your clock Thats the knife for you....
another part of me feels like why do you like that cheap poorly made knife ? Get something better !!!!!

So I am certifiably Nuts My wife loves me anyway !!!

Marketing be d---m what every knife works for you you should buy....
Dont believe any of it try it out feel it use it then enjoy it

Good knife hunting
Jack
 
Ilovetoolsteel said:
How does tobacco marketing fit in to this "advertising is goodness and light" world view you have?
Goodness and light?
It is about making money.
You obviously didn't make an effort to understand the part about fulfilling a percieved need. And what is the percieved need in tobacco advertising?
Ilovetoolsteel said:
People are too stupid to tell they get a poor quality product?
Poor quality by your standards, maybe. But Good for You maybe Needless Expense for someone else. Read any Sebenza thread :yawn:
Ilovetoolsteel said:
There's the attitude I expected, "They're stupid they deserve to be scammed" People who don't know better are open season!
No one is forcing anyone to spend their money.
It comes back to that percieved need.
'Give the people what they want' or 'a sucker is born every minute'
2 different ideas or are they the same?
Ilovetoolsteel said:
A simple analogy applies, and your contempt for the consumer just proved it, If truth and honesty were the bright center of the universe, Advertising would be the furthest point from that center.
Contempt for the consumer?
If that were true, we'd be out of business.
:D
 
The first post in this thread should be a sticky or in a Frequently Asked Question section.

Ilovetoolsteel,

Chiquita markets bananas. I even have their jingle stuck in my head because of you. Dole markets bananas, too. Even the horrible people that sell overpriced, underloved produce (under the nihilistic-appropriated marketing term "organic" :barf: ) market their wares as well. Not sure why your opinion on marketing and advertizing is so sour, but do you hope realize the irony in your posts. You're trying to market an anti-marketing viewpoint.

Pretty much every new product or service, and ideas can count for both, has to be marketed. Sharpening has to be marketed. Safe knife handling has to be marketed. The tool steel that your moniker states you love, is an absolutely perfect example of marketing. Why say steel has anything but 'iron n stuff' unless you're trying meet the desire of a customer? Yeah, it can be misused, but so can knives. :)
 
brownshoe said:
Just don't forget the hype doesn't begin and end with production knives. It is just as bad if not worse with custom knives. The only thing with custom knives, is there is so much ego involved, custom knife buyers not only believe a maker's hype, but help promote it.

On the general forums, people at least have the guts to take on some of the hype of sebenzas, striders, tops etc. On the custom forums, you try to point out some hype with a maker, you'll get flamed, shouted down and the moderator's will shut it down. The reasons being, "don't want to hurt the business of a 'good guy' (read crony)" or "don't insult someone's (read crony) taste just because it's different then yours."

One good example of the way hype is kept alive with customs is the way noone will talk straight and name names about midtech "custom" knives or "custom" knives made in shops with multiple workers that have a single man's name on them, although the guy hasn't finished a knife from start to finish in years, it's all done by shop workers. Take a look at Mike Franklin's website if you want to see some interesting views on how to pick a knifemaker.
Brownshoe,
Would you care to elaborate on which midtech :rolleyes: maker or multiple worker shop you were refering ?
If you were trolling in the Custom Forum,I'm sure you would have been flamed.By the by,don't insult someone's taste just because it is different from yours doesn't appeal to you?
Edited to add.Most excellent post Steven.:thumbup:

Doug
 
thombrogan said:
The first post in this thread should be a sticky or in a Frequently Asked Question section.

Jeez, T. Brogan, I actually made a post that you liked? I am checking for lightning reports in the greater SoCal area, as I write this!:D

That response actually means a lot to me!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
Where the hell was I?

Making some scary photoshop graphics the likes of which I've never seen.

Kohai999 said:
I actually made a post that you liked?

You make several. Just my webbrowser at work won't let me post replies and the chiclet thing is gone.
 
i believe ads do not sell products but do sell images people have in there head of precieved needs.
i believe knifemakers use what most of you consider "good" steel in order to sell products to knowledgeable people like you. the rest of us use " bad " steel because it is in a shape that fits whats in our heads and we are happy in our stupidity of steels so money well spent.
i was happy with all the knives i owned until i found this place now i'm very unhappy with what i own and unable to find the "perfect" steel that is made like what i now want. a little knowledge is ok but it will not make you happy i think.
david
 
Ilovetoolsteel said:
What you fail to recognise is that all marketing is based on the concept of deceiving the consumer. Convincing the customer he is getting more than what he is paying for, For instance, that the materials used are superior when in fact they are inadequate.
Do you know why there are no commercials for bananas on tv? because everybody knows bananas are good for them, everybody knows bananas are delicious, everybody knows bananas are inexpensive. everybody knows kids like bananas. But that is only half of the story. Bananas aren't made of inferior materials, they don't contain things you don't want or need, they aren't subject to dubious cost saving "improvements" You don't have to spin anything to sell bananas The only advertising the people who sell bananas do it to try to get people to eat more of them...

I think you have gone bananas..
 
Back
Top