Knives and other gear for search and rescue?

Crayola

Crayola

Joined
Sep 23, 1999
Messages
3,831
Hello!

I mentioned to Brian yesterday that i will be attending an info meeting for our local SAR team. I didn't know that we even had one, and now I am thinking about joining. I know asking this is kind of premature, and the best people to ask would be the local SAR guys, but here goes anyways!

What knife/bladed tools have you used or heard of people using for SAR work? And, what other gear can you recommend? I live int he praries of southern Alberta (Lethbridge), 60 miles north of Montana. I suspect most of the work is more searching than rescue. I doubt that there would be any mountain SAR work, but there is a river running through this area and coulees. Temperature change/range is a biggie here.

Anyways, let the info fly!

P.S., thanks Brian for that chat yesterday.
 
Start with one good quality large sheat knife. I like those by Becker Knife and Tool, Newt Livesay at Wicked Knife Company, and Bill Siegle. I have not owned Busses but they always get favorable reviews, I've never heard a bad word on them. I say to pick a large knife first because it is possible though difficult to do small knife work with a large knife. It is impossible to do some of the large knife tasks with a small knife.
Hope that points your compass.
Doc
 
Done my share of searchin', even found the lost causes once or twice. Lots of open territory and woods up here, and I got lots of friends and family who spend alot of time out there. Hunting, fishing, mushrooming, etc. Just a matter of numbers that sez somebody is gonna need searching and rescuing.

We have a SAR outfit up here too, but what usually ensues is getting a band of brethren together ourselves and heading out to find whoever it is that is lost. One such pair of hoseheads did a river walk and didn't make it out before dark. They couldn't continue on and just hunkered down and hoped that somebody would come. We did. We found them not 40 yards from the trailhead, but they couldn't find it in the dark.

An organized SAR outfit is usually set up pretty good, but if you are a member of that outfit, it is still good to have your own gear set up right. Mine is pretty simple stuff. Enuff not only to aid in searching, but to sustain myself should I become one of the lost whilst I am searching.

> Mini Mag-lite. If it gets dark you need to see.
> Small first aid kit. In case whoever you find is beat up alittle. Usually it's me who needs patched up at some point.
> Small radio. This depends on the crew I'm with. Many of us have little motorola jobbies that we can tune to the same channel. If we happen to have a bunch of rigs with CB's, I'll pack a handheld 40 channel.
> Food and water. I generally pack about half a dozen MetRx meal replacement bars. Decent tasting, light weight, and each of them is a meal in itself. Water is in a Camelback rig in the pack.
> A couple space blankets. I pack 2 because they weigh next to nothing, and if I happen to find the lost cause and have to hunker down with him, I'd like to have one for him as well.
> Fire starter stuff. I got some of those wax matches and a couple fire starter sticks. Again, if I get stuck, a fire is a decent thing.
> Batteries. Both my Mag-Lite and radio take AA batteries, so I toss a 4 pack in there.
> A whistle. Just in case the radio fails me and I need to signal the rest of the folks.
> A good fixed blade. Generally whichever one I grab first. Ya know which one usually goes? The one in the camping box. An old Schrade Sharpfinger. Who'da thunk. Any good fixed blade will do ya. Your Vancouver Island SAR knife would do nice enuff I bet.

All of this stuff is in my camping box, so digging it out is easy. Every time I've gone out though, it's been hunting season. The stuff is pretty much in the truck already. All of this stuff can be jammed into a Camelback day pack. There are several models of this (I look at www.rei.com ) and they are great. The whole thing loaded rides your back like it isn't there.

Take it for what it's worth, my friend. You could toss in a bunch of other stuff too. A handheld GPS and map would be good, I simply don't have a GPS, and I know the area around here well enuff not to need the map. I used to take a couple of those glow sticks too, but I don't now cuz the boy likes 'em.

Cray, please come back after the meeting and tell us what they say. Be interesting to hear their thoughts.
 
Thanks Doc and Vel for your ideas. It is forumites like you two guys that make coming here so great. Your experiences, Doc, I really appreciate learning from. My old TKD instructor was, once upon a time, in the SAS so really listened to what he had to say about the boonies.

Vel, thanks for sharing all of that info, and thanks for mentioning my Vancouver Rescue knife! I'm actually designing the 2nd version of that knife in light of this SAR thing. I was wondering if tanto tips are useful fr SAR for any hard work, but I'd have to figure out how to do such a grind on my grinder. Something to chat about later I guess :)
 
Velitrius, can't find MetRx "meal replacement bars".

Do they go by another name?? Just curious.


Mike
 
ThatMguy, if you dash into a GNC, you will see a rack with Meal Replacement bars galore. My wife likes AdvantEdge ones from EAS, I also like the ones from Universal Nutrition... Animal Snak they call theirs. ProMax bars are really good too. Real big and really full of choco-goodness. Safeway stores now have a decent variety of different bars now too. Worth a look.

You really can't go wrong with any of them for nutritional value. They all have a bunch of calories, a bunch of carbs, and a bunch of protein. Meals in a wrapper. Drink lots of water with 'em though. I swear, cheeze must be envious of their constipational powers.

I am imagining GNC has a website. Dash over there and have a look at their selection. You'll get an eyeful of several. If you don't fancy going after these engineered marvels, (or if you think the $2 sticker price on some of these is too large). grab a bag of trail mix and hit the woods, my friend. Any good energy source will do.
 
Another thing to consider would be some EMS shears. They cut clothing,shoe laces, etc. really well, people aren't afraid of them, and there is no chance of cutting someone if you have to cut off some clothing.

Also, military issue combat lifesaver bags (or other small medical bags) are handy bags for storing first aid gear.

Military issue poncho's (or other ponchos with snaps) are good because, besides the obvious, they can be made into emergency litters.

Also check out Camelbacks and get a good rucksack to carry all this crap.
 
You are way ahead of me on the SAR links there, Java. Looks like you got all of our state links covered there.

There are a few sites that give a list of recommended equipment. I just couldn't justify 75% of the stuff they had in there. Somebody who crammed that entire list into a pack would be able to set up a M*A*S*H unit. I like to move freely and pack just what I need.

ThatMguy, sorry about that. I babbled on about other stuff and didn't answer your real question. MetRx has a couple of bars that are good. One just has a big "MET-Rx" across the front. Don't think it has a name really. It's a big ol' 100 gram unit, and it comes in a bunch of flavors. I haven't tried the cookie dough one yet. If you do, tell me what it's like. The other one is called "Protein Plus". Got a bigger dose of protein in it. I haven't tried this one either. If you go to www.metrx.com and click on Products, it will give you a list of their food bars there. These puppies are Search and Rescue friendly. No preparation, eat it while you are walkin' sustenance here.

Anyhoo, I was wondering how that meeting was gonna turn out, just to see what was supplied and/or recommended. Our local SAR outfit requires that everybody keep and maintain their own equipment. The list reads like an army surplus garage sale. Boullion cubes?? A sewing kit?? I aint gonna be gone that long, folks. I just make sure my toilet paper pocket is armed and I am good to go.

Keep us posted on your exploits, Cray. I'm genuinely interested in how this goes for you!
 
Thanks for the info again, and thanks for your support guys! The meeting is 13 days away, so when it comes up I'll give a sitrep to you guys!
 
Crayola,
I have little experience here, but both my father and stepmom are EMT's so I'll try to pass on a little. I think Valirius ( sorry if I miss spelled that) mentioned firestarting equipment, but lighters always seem to be useful. I think the emt shears are a great idea. Also, if you put together a 1st aid kit I recommend getting a SAM splint. Light/quick way to deal with breaks or bad sprains. Mag lights are great, but personally I would also recommend having a headlight of some form to leave your hands free. Maybe a compass in the first aid kit as well. signal mirror. Maybe even an emergency flare or two.
Like I said, I have little experience, but those are some things I've seen others grab, hope that helps.
Lagarto
 
Thanks Lagarto for your input. I was actually thinking about EMT shears a few hours ago. I bet they would be a great piece of kit.
I remember 2 things from a flyer the SAR guys had at their booth. 1) They are big on headlamps. I bet a nice Petzl would make a fine piece of Search gear. 2) they want 3 sources of light with you. I'm guessing a head lamp, spare flashlight and mini flare-gun are what they are thinking of, or maybe instead of the flashlight they mean firemaking gear. Anyways, from what I remember of the stuff on their list, it seems like these guys have their assets together :), and they appreciate good gear. I'll find out more on the 20th...
 
Crayola,
Petzl healamps are great, I own two but I personally would recommend one of the new Princeton Tec lights. These come in several models one of which uses LED's and is supposed to be an excellent model for what you would be using it for. I personally have one that has both the Halogen bulb and a backup standard bulb. Halogen eats batteries faster, but it is definately much brighter and the light carries much farther than with a standard bulb. Sorry but I can't remember the model number off the top of my head, and I'm not at home otherwise I'd check for you. You're right about the multiple sources of light. I know my parents have several mini-mags in their turnout kits as well as several Mega mags (D cell versions of mini mags) in their vehicles.
Good Luck
Lagarto.
 
3 light sources are an absolute must if you are going out into the darkness. My choice of carrying a Mini Mag-Lite is a good one for what I usually do, which is daylight searching. The last search I was on went from daylight to dusk. We maintained a fire on the nearest landing (just in case our boy was still walking around) for a visible target for the guy to go by. Searching resumed with daylight the following morning. We simply couldn't justify banging around in the dark. We knew that the risk of getting another guy lost or hurt was greatly magnified at night, and we also knew that at night you can walk within a couple of yards of an unconscious person and miss him completely. Mind you, this was a heavily forested area, most of the countryside up here is. Night time really sux in there.

The light I carry is simply for in case I don't make it back to the truck before it is too dark to see. I am not set up for digging around in the dark. If you are busting into the brush during the dark hours, it would be foolish to have only one light source, and you are correct that a good head lamp is a great way to go. But again, for me, the heavy forest around here only serves to knock the light and my hat from my head, so I stick with the mini mag.

Now you've got me thinking about that Petzl.Hands free is a great thing in the dark, for many applications. Changing your tire, reading a map, or pulling a litter with both hands, climbing over stuff, walking with a hiking stick in one hand..., dang list is endless. Hmmmm. I guess I am off to buy some more gear for my bag after all. Thanx fer bringing it up.
 
Velitrius,
Good point about night searches, also re:the importance of hands free which you reinforced. The last time I used mine was trying to put a wheel back on a toyota 4 runner after it had fallen off. Fortunately 1. it happened at low speed and I wasn't hurt and 2. I had help. But having both hands free to play with the jack, lug wrench etc... was a big help. I now have 2, one in my car and one at home. Really do think the Princeton Tech is the better device though.
Lagarto
 
Some good ideas here.

You don't need a light to move in the dark, but you do when searching. Light travels far and thats a good thing here. The new LED stuff coming through would be good as the battery life is good and long.

First aid kits with stuff that you know how to use. Enough to make someone comfortable.

Leatherman Wave or a SAK Rucksack are a good choise. If you must go bigger then a Chris Reeve Project I, but you know your terrain better than I and this work is a team effort.

Where its cold something to make a hot sweet brew never goes amiss. A hot drink puts a smile on the most dishevelled. A brew kit makes you well popular with fellow team members on a cold night waiting out for orders.

Space blanket, bivi bag or warm jacket for those cold or in shock.

Walking stick/pole worth taking especially on the hill or when wading. If in the woods it needs to be stout enough to brush clear a path.

A decent length of climbing rope and being well practiced at using it. Your knots and all that. If there is no need for a long rope then a short toggle set up is still worth packing, especially if others pack them as well. If not a toggle then a length with a carrabena attached either end.

Comms/compass/map/whistle/water goes without saying.

Travel light as the need is to cover ground fast and thoroughly. Don't let yourself become the casualty. Stop and listen hard every once in a while.

If the team is up to speed then listen up until you have gained some experience. Then make your suggestions.
 
Velitrius, thanks. Sorry for the late response. Forgot about my priginal question....

I'll check them out.
 
I think GreenJacket Made an excellent point about having some climbing rope. I would add two points about that 1. there are two types static and dynamic and I believe for outdoor/rescue use you'd want dynamic, but ask the pros about that. 2. If you bring the rope you may also want a belay device. Griegry ( I think that's how it's spelled) makes a nice automatic one, I've even see experienced folks self belay with it. If you want to go cheap there are basic figure eights out there for about $20 I think.
Lagarto
 
I think I found a good deal on what you were talking about, Lagarto. At www.rei.com there is a good selection of the Princeton Tec light systems.

I see the Matrix model is the LED. Their Quest comes with a krypton bulb, and the Solo has a halogen. The thing that got me to digging for the Visa card is the fact that their Quest model is on sale right now for $15.99. Heck, ya can't go wrong at that price. Gonna have to pick one up.

Next time I am up at REI's store in Seattle, or even the Portland one, I'm gonna have to try out that LED Matrix model. I never fail at spending a bundle there. Crayola, the only negative I could tell you about shopping at REI is the fact that the exchange rate might not make it worth your while. Their stuff is expensive, but heck, who's aint?

Gee whiz Lagarto, I was cussing you for making me go out and spend another wad of cash. But now I gotta thank you for turning me on to another great addition to the gear bag, and inadvertently sending me over to find that sale price on the Princeton Tec.

Cray, I hope you get to that meeting and get this topic back onto SAR, before the mods kick this thread over to the Gadgets and Gear forum. My fault, of course. ;)
 
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