Knives and where they are made

J

Joe Dirt

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First off, I realize that this may need to go into the Community forum but I wasn't sure since it's knife related. I don't care where it ends up.

So, where do you people stand on knife manufacturers and where they make there knives?

As far as I know Queen is the only company who still makes things 100% in the USA.

Benchmade makes certain things in Taiwan, Spyderco has certain knives made in Japan, CRKT have some from Taiwin, Kershaw has some from China, Buck has some from China, etc.

Does this bother anyone? Are knives out of the other countries just as good? Should we shy away from buying "foreign" knives?

I think out of all the countries I don't have a problem with Japan or the United states (as far as where knives are made). I'm not so sure about China or Taiwan, but I don't know enough about them.

I know China is a communist country.

Is it good or bad that we buy knives from manufacturers that choose to make some of their knives in another country?

My heart says it's wrong and I should try to buy as much USA made stuff as possible. That's however almost impossible these days.

This thread is not meant to get out of hand as I would rather it not end up in cheese and whine.

Let's be adults and have a good conversation here.

How do you feel about any/all of this?
 
Well, taking a step back and looking at products in general, I think it's sad how few of our products are made here anymore. We're becoming to dependant on others it seems. Hoover (I'm located in the town of their main plant, North Canton) is outsourcing to Mexico and will probably cripple this city financially. I work at Kmart and when I unload the trucks of new clothing shipments I see all these different places...Bangladesh, Guatemala, Indonesia, Vietnam. Made In China seems to apply to so many products.

I don't know, looking at all of this it's disheartening. Even things made in the USA are likely made from products manufactured overseas. Jobs getting outsourced left and right...meh.

I'm with you on buying American made stuff, seems like a good idea to me. I like to make an effort to keep my purchases ot American made knives...but if I'm really feeling a specific design, I won't hesitate to purchase a Taiwan-made knife or so forth.
 
I bet most people who don't care where something is made are under the age of 25 or 30.
 
If it is a quality piece it shouldn't much matter these days. The Byrd knives from Spyderco made in China are quite nice and a lot of bang for the bucks spent. Then again the made in the USA Kershaw knives like the Vapor and the Storm and Storm II are extremely well made values in the knife world.

It doesn't bother me much where on earth things are made but I do still love to have one or two that I carry that say proudly, "made in the USA" on them. I won't be too concerned about the stamp on things until things start showing up stamped, " Made on Mars" or "Lunar Made" or some such $hit! Then I may have a problem if I'm still around when businesses start taking work 'off world'. :D


STR
 
So if it's not made by Americans, it's not good enough? Are thus non-Americans subhumans not deserving to make a living?

Threads like this are not about quality, but about nationalism and we know who the lowest common denominator is with those sentiments.



Mods, move this to Political.
 
So does it not matter who is employed where making these knives?

Are companies like Spyderco outsourcing to China for their Byrd brand because American workers just want too much money?
 
AmadeusM said:
So if it's not made by Americans, it's not good enough? Are thus non-Americans subhumans not deserving to make a living?

Threads like this are not about quality, but about nationalism and we know who the lowest common denominator is with those sentiments.



Mods, move this to Political.
Click to expand...

With me, it's not an issue of quality. My 1 CRKT knife I own was made in Taiwan and I had my expectations SURPASSED when it comes to fit & finish, plus overall quality.

I just don't like the idea of all the products I buy being made in other countries due to the economics involved. It isn't even so much about the countries themselves, I just don't like the whole focus on getting things as cheap as you can, instead of getting them froms omeone who puts genuine effort into their work.

Take for instance videogames. Tons of games are pushed out based on movies and stuff that are crap, made only to sell. Other games are made by people who are passionate about what they do, and it shows in the end. Games like Zelda: Ocarina Of Time, The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion and so on.

I just wish the world in general could shift more to the latter. More focus on fine craftsmanship, knowing the screwdriver you buy today will still be working as good 20 years down the road, rather than buying a product that is on the shelves simply because that company offered the retailer the lowest price.
 
Joe Dirt said:
I bet most people who don't care where something is made are under the age of 25 or 30.
Click to expand...

If we're making sweeping generalizations, I'll add this one. I'm willing to bet that people who don't care actually understands basic things like profit margins and purchases items regardless of country of origin, as long as it's a quality item.
 
I think people forget that it still profits Americans when something isn't made here. If an American sells a Japanese or China made product, be it a car, a boat, a tractor, or a pocket knife and makes a living off of it isn't that a benefit also? It is in my mind.

STR
 
Well there are others that make knives in the u.s., camillus of course they outsource some also. Marbles are made here, case, lone wolf, etc. as are others, but to get something that is 100% made here is near to impossible. The screws are almost always made overseas, especially the torx screws. Allot of the bone comes from S.A and other countires, some (very little) comes form here. Stag almost always comes from S.A., Europe, India, little comes from the U.S.

It comes down to more economics more, than anything else. Now, I am not a fan of outsourcing by any means, but when you figure in the cost of paying employees, the cost of parts, health insurance, benefits (employee vacation), etc. etc. etc. Its really hard to make money at it! Selling knives is not like selling food, it has its "good days and bad days". Now granted, today, knife sales are fairly decent (fairly good). There is a much bigger interest in knives. It should be a good venture, except when you take into account all the competition out there (in sales).

When I was collecting making knives when I was younger (over 20+ years ago), there wasnt that much interest out there. Now there is allot, but allot of competition also!

When schrade went under a couple years ago I was floored. No less, on their 100 year anniversary! I expected it could happen, they had "cheapened' allot of their products, outsourced, quality control was down, and the new products coming out were of poor design (for the most part). Their association with "wally-world" did not help either. It was bound to happen!

I use to get upset, but now I dont. It really is a competition out there for consumers, and when you figure in everything, you really cant blame these guys for wanting to "stay afloat" (now taylor, and others who outsource to that extent, I will not comment on them).

If you want to blame anyone, we should blame ourselves! If we did not want our products outsourced, we should not have bought them!!

To a large extent the consumer does dictate the market!!!

If you want to stop buying foreign made products you will loose over 75% of your everyday products (sad as it may be).
 
AmadeusM said:
So if it's not made by Americans, it's not good enough? Are thus non-Americans subhumans not deserving to make a living?

Threads like this are not about quality, but about nationalism and we know who the lowest common denominator is with those sentiments.



Mods, move this to Political.
Click to expand...

Dude, ease up there. This thread has nothing to do with non Americans being subhumans. Reeelaaaxx.
 
Vivi said:
With me, it's not an issue of quality. My 1 CRKT knife I own was made in Taiwan and I had my expectations SURPASSED when it comes to fit & finish, plus overall quality.

I just don't like the idea of all the products I buy being made in other countries due to the economics involved. It isn't even so much about the countries themselves, I just don't like the whole focus on getting things as cheap as you can, instead of getting them froms omeone who puts genuine effort into their work.

Take for instance videogames. Tons of games are pushed out based on movies and stuff that are crap, made only to sell. Other games are made by people who are passionate about what they do, and it shows in the end. Games like Zelda: Ocarina Of Time, The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion and so on.

I just wish the world in general could shift more to the latter. More focus on fine craftsmanship, knowing the screwdriver you buy today will still be working as good 20 years down the road, rather than buying a product that is on the shelves simply because that company offered the retailer the lowest price.
Click to expand...


That is exactly what this thread is about! :)
 
No, I dont think this is about anyone being called "sub-human", but about quality, and us makers outsourcing. Many countries make great knives, and many companies in other contries, make knives that are "sub-standard".

Well, unfortunately, if they made a good knife, they would not make money on more later. Besides, the cheaper they can make them, the lower the cost to them, and they can sell them to anyone who has $5.00 in their pocket :(
 
rev_jch said:
If you want to blame anyone, we should blame ourselves! If we did not want our products outsourced, we should not have bought them!!

To a large extent the consumer does dictate the market!!!
Click to expand...

True but just me not buying outsourced stuff doesn't stop anything.

Unfortunately we need more people do not buy it instead of just me. I try very hard not to buy outsourced stuff, but like you said it is very hard to do for day to day items.

Even if you buy something I notice that it will say Made in USA (box printed in China). What do you do about that? Pretty much nothing.

rev_jch said:
No, I dont think this is about anyone being called "sub-human", but about quality, and us makers outsourcing. Many countries make great knives, and many companies in other contries, make knives that are "sub-standard".

Well, unfortunately, if they made a good knife, they would not make money on more later. Besides, the cheaper they can make them, the lower the cost to them, and they can sell them to anyone who has $5.00 in their pocket :(
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Understand that (as stated before) this thread is not a bash on anything non-American. I just wondered what you all think about knives made in Japan, or Taiwan, or wherever.

My experience has shown me that a lot of the stuff made in Seki City Japan is a lot nicer than some of the stuff made in the USA.
 
Oh, and allot of the responsibility of the "chaep" knives lies on those who have commissioned others to make them!'

Just like "low-bidders" (winning) on goverment contracts, they want to save money! So they go with the cheapest!!
 
This is true sometimes (I have seem some junk from there in the past)! Seki, the "solingen" of Japan does a pretty good job. But there are many other countries that make quality knives also. Ive noticed allot of knives coming out of china are getting better now, so watch out (this should be interesting)! Pakistan still has allot of ground to catch up on, but there seems to be a "slight" improvement on their part also.

True, it would take thousands, upon thousands? To make the companies take notice, but I do understand what you are saying. When I was much younger many things were made here, now? The majority isnt!
 
This isn't an issue (note the word choice, I didn't say 'problem' for a reason) that's limited to knives. Just about every industry is outsourcing now. It used to be more or less restricted to blue collar jobs (factories, etc.) but it's starting to happen with white collar jobs as well (tech support and tax prep, specifically).

With the blue collar jobs a large part of the motivation to outsource was that the US has pretty strict enviromnental standards that other countries do not. Those standards cost the companies extra money to make their product so they move to a country that does not enforce the same standards as the US in order to sell their product for less.

The issue with white collar jobs is the worker's pay and benefits. A programer in the US can make over $100,000 per year if they play their cards right, a comperable programer in India (where a lot of software is developed now) makes around $10,000 a year. The programmer in India also doesn't get paid vacation, and their health insurance is little to none. Economically, it just makes sense to outsource, but that doesn't mean that it's always the right thing to do.

The US is going to hit major hard times in the next few decades if this trend of outsourcing keeps up. From what I can see there are really two ways to help alleviate the situation. Either we attempt to get other countries to impose similar envorimnental standards as well as employee benefits, or we lower the US' standards to meet the other countries. The reason why we have outsourcing is the descrepancy between what the businesses have to do to operate in various countries, if you close that gap then the businesses won't have any reason to leave.
 
Dune said:
The issue with white collar jobs is the worker's pay and benefits. A programer in the US can make over $100,000 per year if they play their cards right, a comperable programer in India (where a lot of software is developed now) makes around $10,000 a year. The programmer in India also doesn't get paid vacation, and their health insurance is little to none. Economically, it just makes sense to outsource, but that doesn't mean that it's always the right thing to do.
Click to expand...

Your point is exactly why I don't like the way things are going.

It is all about instant gratification. The world has simply not gone through what we have to get the stuff we have. Point being, that after a while the Indian programmer will get sick and tired of the BS and then him and everyone else will have an uprising and demand more pay or more vacation. Then after a while we're back to square one.

I'm just amazed that instead of a company biting the bullet they sell out.

If I were a company like Buck for example: I would rather have shut down than put up a factory in China.

We Americans are letting companies sell jobs out from under us because communist China will work people for less. How is that good? Families in China or India or whatever are getting shafted too. To them it may be good for the time being but not in the long run.

I guess I'll continue to be old school. I just don't understand why any of this would be good for America or the people buying the products. People need to demand more quality instead of cheapness.

-You can have fast, and good, but it will not be done cheap.
-You can have good and cheap but it will not be done fast.
-You can have fast and cheap but it will not be done good.
 
If the product is good, I don't really care where it is made. I do try to stay away from china made stuff, but that is mostly because it is, in general anyway, of low quality.

I find that the USA and Japan made stuff are pretty much always good, and I have had reletively good luck with Taiwan made stuff too. I actually think that Spyderco's knives made in Japan are better than the ones they make in the US. I have had a couple of quality control issues with there US made stuff (which were corrected by Spyderco though), while all the stuff of theres that is Japan made has been top notch.
 
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