Knives breaking while batoning wood

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rodogg

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Nov 25, 2011
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Have seen videos and read about knives breaking while people were batoning wood. This is something I do with my knives, and was wondering what the cause of the knife breaking WOOD be? (couldn't resist the pun) I know there is no indestructible knife, but is it that the knife steel is TOO hard, and therefore not flexible? Or the opposite, too soft? Is it because of hitting the knife in the wrong place? Using too heavy a baton? And what knives/steel have you found to be the toughest in this regard? I would HATE to be in a survival situation, hit my knife and bang, broken.
 
I moved this to Wilderness & Survival Skills, where we may have a more focused audience for the question. A lot depends on the quality of the knife and a lot more on the skill of the person. We have seen lightweight slipjoints get the job done and massive fixed blades crack under pressure.
 
Go with a reputable "hard use" knifemaker, I like Busse Combat and have heard good things about Becker Knife and Tool (have one on it's way). Busse knives are IMHO second to none and their unconditional lifetime guarantee kind of puts any question of durability to rest. If you break it (not that you can't but good luck breaking one under normal use, people have to work at it when TRYING to break them) send it back and they will replace it at no charge and no questions (as far as I understand it). Search around for reviews here and one the web, and find what will best suit your needs and budget; knife tests is the site that got me interested...That's just my two sense, hope it helps...
:D
 
rodogg said:
Have seen videos and read about knives breaking while people were batoning wood. This is something I do with my knives, and was wondering what the cause of the knife breaking WOOD be? (couldn't resist the pun) I know there is no indestructible knife, but is it that the knife steel is TOO hard, and therefore not flexible? Or the opposite, too soft? Is it because of hitting the knife in the wrong place? Using too heavy a baton? And what knives/steel have you found to be the toughest in this regard? I would HATE to be in a survival situation, hit my knife and bang, broken.
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Some are indestructible buddy....my Swamprat Chopweiler for one !

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By pitdog2010 at 2010-09-30

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By pitdog2010 at 2010-09-30
 
I have found Busse, Swamprat and Scrapyard knives to be very tough!!

Also have a couple of custom Tuskers made by Scott Gossman in O1 steel that are tough as nails. Specificaly a 10" blade that is 5/16ths thick seen here!!
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Prying off a nice slab of fatwood.
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The above Tusker is my go to knife, camp chores, battoning, chopping, etc. She can handle it ALL!!
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Are you looking for big choppers or more utilitarian designs like bushcrafters?

I think you would do well with high carbon or tool steels and you can browse the Hosted Knifemaker Forums for knives you can have made to your own specs. I just got a pair of knives from JK Handmade Knives' John Kiedaisch in O1 that will do the job.
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Thanks for moving the thread! Well I'm pretty new to all this so I'm just asking lots of questions so as to learn! I like the idea of minimalist survival, and the thought "what if your knife broke" crossed my mind! And a scary thought it was. But on a more realistic level, yes, more utilitarian bushcrafter type knives are what I'm after. I've had my eye on an esee-6 which I'm almost certain I'll buy, and their warranty is excellent! The custom knives are a little out of my price range though perhaps! Although I am thinking about buying a nice little knife from one of the knife makers on this forum :P
 
improper technique, and trying to make a knife split something beyond its capacity is the primary causes of breakage imo
I've battoned with everythign from Moras to Esee's never broke a knife.. I try to keep it real though..
I'm not going to try and split a femur thick piece of oak with a mora...
i try not to baton through knots if I can avoid it, and I try to go with the grain.
read the wood than split it rather than just attack it. and almost any fixed blade will do you
however my favorite knives for Heavy use are the kabar bk7, and bk9 and the esee6
good luck in your search
great points so far everyone.
 
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The steel composition, thickness, grind geometry and lubrication to friction have a lot to do with failure during batoning. I love scrapyard knives in sr77 for getting it all right.
 
+1 on Kabar Beckers. I have a BK2 and it is about as close to indestructible as you can get at a full 1/4" thick blade of 1095 cro can steel. The BK7 and BK9 are also excellent. Beckers are are also an outstanding value.

There is a trilogy of videos on YouTube were a guy tried batoning an ESEE 4 though a BK2 and visa versa. Neither one broke.
 
SoldMyHat said:
+1 on Kabar Beckers. I have a BK2 and it is about as close to indestructible as you can get at a full 1/4" thick blade of 1095 cro can steel. The BK7 and BK9 are also excellent. Beckers are are also an outstanding value.

There is a trilogy of videos on YouTube were a guy tried batoning an ESEE 4 though a BK2 and visa versa. Neither one broke.
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You mean an ESEE 5. :)
 
Becker knives are tough knives at a great price.

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After I removed from wood.

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I was more than impressed.
 
I batoned a CS 18" barong machete lengthwise through an entire 9ft. section of tree trunk from a blown-down maple. Batoning isn't exactly rocket science--you just have to be patient and keep the limits of the tool you're using in mind to make sure you don't strain it beyond what it can repeatedly handle. Keep the blade level and work with the wood rather than against it and you're usually fine. I have yet to have a knife take any damage from being batoned, but I've been careful and always respected the tool.
 
Never once had a knife break due to battoning. I've battoned .06 inch Tramontinas through just about everything, .09 inch Moras... hollow grinds, convex grinds, flat grinds, scandi grinds... I try to stay away from using hollow grinds for impact if I can, but... alot of it is being practical about your tool and avoiding overly hard and brittle stainless steels for your tools. It amazes me that people get so heavily invested in high priced high hardness stainless steels and then whine when they fracture.
It also amazes me how people can be so blind as to their using technique and then go and blame the tool for their own actions. If you put straight downward pressure on your blade, and avoid diagonally or perpendicularly impacting the spine of your blade, you shouldn't have a problem.

Avoid knots, make the most out of existing splits and grain patterns, and learn the little nuances of where to batton, how to twist the handle to pry the split open, etc. It's not a hard technique to learn but some common sense and practical application is involved.

ESEE 5 battoning story.
A good whitewater friend built a 4,000 square foot log cabin/lodge up in the mountains two winters ago, and he hired me as the jobsite's mundane mule and general finish guy. He started in the winter because he was bored, but this particular location is famous for getting an average of 17 feet of snowfall a year, and I was living in an unfinished lodge with no roof. We had lots of burnable jobsite junk, and stayed warm with a 4 month long bonfire in the back yard. My 5 was on my waist for general cutting, demolition and fire prep tasks. One time, I attempted to batton a piece of big 4x10? joist to split for the fire. It was redwood I think. I made it through the first 2 feet just fine, but came to a spot that just wouldn't budge. I pounded, pounded, pounded and nothing happened. Finally it gave way and to my horror found the remains of a 16 penny nail that had been driven through the log. Upon inspecting the knife, there was a gouge in the finish (not all the way, mind you-the scratch didn't even make it to the metal) and a small divot in the edge where the steel had rolled. I used a Himalayan honing steel to mush the edge back into place and resharpened it. At this point it you could never tell anything ever happened.

If you're looking for a true take-it-all survival knife, anything in 1095 at 58 rockwell in 3/16ths with a full tang is all you could ever need. I think you'll find over time that thinner knives are just as capable and reliable if you know your technique and apply a good using edge. Most of my final bevels on my beaters are hand-applied light convex at maybe 35 degree inclusive angles, or 17.5 degrees per side.
 
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PayetteRucker said:
I think you'll find over time that thinner knives are just as capable and reliable if you know your technique and apply a good using edge. Most of my final bevels on my beaters are hand-applied light convex at maybe 35 degree inclusive angles, or 17.5 degrees per side.
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^THIS. Thin blades and edges can take MUCH more abuse than folks give them credit for. :thumbup:
 
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