Knives from old files and etching questions.

G

gragh

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Apr 26, 2008
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Hello, im a newbie, and i have a few questions.

Does anyone know what kinda steel an old nickolson file would be? If i were to forge a knife out of it (ive only really tried leaf springs, which seem to be forgiving,) what would be a good quenchant? methinks water would be too harsh, so im leanign towars old preheated motor oil.

also, with pattern welds,

besides that radio shack etching fluid/vinegar mixture, what other readily available etching mediums are there?

Thanks!
 
I don't know, but Nicholson file steel is excellent steel for a knife, and does very well with low tech HT. Simmons is also good. The rest I won't use.
 
I have read here that Nickelson says to treat their files as 1095. As such I would not use warmed motor oil. Must quench way faster even if the file is W2 which no doubt some are. At the very least use ATF but, your not going to get the most out of the steel with out Parks 50 or something similar or water/brine. Also because of the high carbon content in these steels you need to get a ways above non magnetic. About 1475. The magnet will quit above 1350 or so. Non magnetic and any oil will work, it just won't work the best. You will get less martensite and more bainite and pearlite there fore less edge holding.
 
thanks for all the helpful tips and info.

any thoughts as to what kinda steel a chainsaw BAR is made of?
 
A while back I Emailed Copper tools, maker of Nicholson files and ask them about the metal in there files. They were nice enough to call me back, and I had quite a nice chat with the manager of customer services. I explained to him that I was a blacksmith and I worked with young people with Little money. We like to recycle old metal in to useful items. Has nothing to do with what is best or the best steel It has to do with the Independence of being able to make good with Little.

The representative from Copper tool, told me that "while the exact composition of there steel is priority, If I treated there regular files like W-1 and there farrier rasps like 1095 I should have good results"
 
Did my homework and found this post before I started adding to the mass of file knife how-to's in here. But, a couple of things are still leaving me confused...oh by the way I am working on my first knife via stock removal from a Nickelson file. Aren't files already heat treated and hardened to a high degree? If so is there a way to soften the metal (also making it easier to work) and then harden it for edge retention?

ib2v4u said:
I have read here that Nickelson says to treat their files as 1095. As such I would not use warmed motor oil. Must quench way faster even if the file is W2 which no doubt some are. At the very least use ATF but, your not going to get the most out of the steel with out Parks 50 or something similar or water/brine. Also because of the high carbon content in these steels you need to get a ways above non magnetic. About 1475. The magnet will quit above 1350 or so. Non magnetic and any oil will work, it just won't work the best. You will get less martensite and more bainite and pearlite there fore less edge holding.
Click to expand...

And what is ATF (I'm guessing automatic transmission fluid,) Parks 50, and with the water/brine is this just water and ice with salt added to create the endothermic reaction of creating super cold water (that is also good for a quick chill on a 6 pack?)

Also is there anyone out there that i could do a good proper heat treat for me since I'm not set up to do anything super fancy like that.

Oh and BikerMike the links you posted aren't working or is it just me?
 
You can [and should ] anneal the file before grinding.Then of course it has to be rehardened. Brine is not for beer.The most effective is a 10 % salt[ NaCl] in water. It is the most rapid quench .Water or brine can increase the risk of cracks !
 
what would be the best way to anneal a file? Heat it to red hot then let cool on its own? Would I be able to do this with a propane torch, BBQ, or a gas oven? These are the "tools" I would have to heat the blade with.

thanks for the link Mike
 
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Thanks again BikerMike, No search function can make it kinda difficult to find some things. That first link gave me what I was looking for
Donald Bell said:
Easy home method
1. get some fireplace ash, or vermiculite (from a garden centre)
2. get an ovenproof pan large enough to hold the file(aluminum roasting pan)
3.fill pan 3/4 with #1 and put in oven at 400 deg. for 1 hour
4. with a propane plumbers torch, heat the file to cherry red
5. quickly bury file in pan, turn off oven and leave for 12 hours or so
6 file should then be easy to cut with hacksaw ,file.and sandpaper
AND NOW THE REAL FUN BEGINS---GOOD LUCK
Don
Bellknives.com
Click to expand...

Only thing is do you guys think I would be able to use my gas BBQ instead of kitchen oven? I don't think I'll be able to take up the oven for that long of a period of time; BBQ yes oven no.
 
If your BBQ has a thermometer then yes you can monitor it.

Ive made some file knives for kitchen use out of Nicohlson files with great success. The way I did it was to select the files from the local swap meet brought them home and sttarted grinding away... No annealing or HT other than what the factory shipped it out as.

I now have a stack of precision ground aneealed 1095 to work with Im hoping for good results and maybe a bit easier of a time grinding.
 
It does have a thermometer. I wouldn't worry about annealing and then HT but, I plan on this one being a user for the in the woods so I don't want it to be super file hard and brittle. The ease of grinding is just a plus.
 
Made many knives out of nicholson files. Really good steel.
Anneal, work, normalize twice and heat treat.
I quench in hydraulic oil.
Do it in poperly ventilated areas and with a gas mask. The vapours are toxic and potentially carcinogenic.
You don't want to breath that shit.
It's very rich in carbon, so temper accordingly.
 
Alarion said:
Made many knives out of nicholson files. Really good steel.
Anneal, work, normalize twice and heat treat.
I quench in hydraulic oil.
Do it in poperly ventilated areas and with a gas mask. The vapours are toxic and potentially carcinogenic.
You don't want to breath that shit.
It's very rich in carbon, so temper accordingly.
Click to expand...

Normalize?

Can ya tell I'm new to this.

I have a respirator that I use with my photo chemicals (some of them can be pretty nasty too ie potassium ferra cyanide) I have & use organic vapor & acid gas cartridges for my chems will those be sufficient?
 
Yes, they should do.
Normalizing is heating to non critical and leaving cool in still air. Refines grain and relieves internal stresses from forging.
 
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