Knives in extreme temperatures

eyeeatingfish

eyeeatingfish

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I saw a documentary about the building of a research facility in the ant arctic recently and one of the things they mentioned was that they would have problems because a -100 degrees F metal tools could shatter or snap or break easily. I dont remember the specifics as it was a while ago but i remmeber them saying that at these temperatures metals tools could break easily.

I am wondering about various knife metals in such cold temperatures. I assume most havent tested knives in these temperatures though.
Anyone know of any data on this subject? Which steels perform at extreme temperatures better?
 
Titanium doesn't make a conventionally good knife blade, but in conditions of extreme cold, it will not shatter like steel.
 
The "brittle transition temperature " of a steel depends on it's chemical composition. That's one of the problems that lead to the Titanic sinking .I don't have any data as to which knife steels work better at low temps.
 
Mete got it right: it's that transition that makes steel brittle.

If you consider tool steel, it's a bigger problem because they are designed to work at high temps, so it's a bit normal they are bad at low temps.

But for knives, no idea.
 
There are many metals that can take extreme temps with little change in mechanical strength. Titanium is one. Beta Ti is a highly alloyed titanium that can take extremet changes in temps with little degradation in performance. It makes a really good knife material. It holds an edge like a 440A blade but has better toughness than most steels and will not break when bent. Mission uses this Ti in it's knives and they are probably the best Ti knives on the market.

Stellite/Talonite is another material that can take extreme in temps, but the toughness is not there. Edge holding is excellent however.

Of course Ceramic blades can take extremes but tend to be too brittle.

Now, almost any blade that has been deep cryoed can take sub zero temps with little change. Just not many makers do this as it's benefits versus time and cost are subject to interpretation. I do believe in cryo and I buy knives that have this in their HT. And no, deep cryo is not sticking a knife in a freezer at 100 below zero. Deep cryo is 300 below and or more and the blade has to soak there and there is a time temp process to follow to avoid creating internal stress risers. If the person/shop/place doing this doesn't know the specifics stay away. Les Robertson use to talk about how tough the Brend D2 blade was compared to other knives because of his HT process which involved cryo. Probably quite true.
 
I had read that Antarctic explorers faced temperatures so cold that their teeth cracked! Yikes!

In addition to finding a non-brittle blade for those temps, I think I'd also be concerned about touching any metal and having it give instant frostbite and becoming stuck fast to any exposed skin, a la Christmas Story and the flagpole.
 
Space is neither hot nor cold. Space is vacuum or near enough- as a result, it has no temperature. "Hot" and "cold" are relative terms to describe differences in energy levels between two bodies of matter. Air is matter, water is matter, steel is matter, even a fire is made up of little bits of matter; vacuum is the lack of matter.

That being said, -100 degrees (F or C) is pretty freaking cold. Anything we make will probably break at that temperature, and you shouldn't be out there. Breathing in air that cold will kill you, not may, will, and any tissues exposed to that temperature would freeze solid within a few seconds. I don't mean a little frostbite on the surface, but solid block of frozen meat with an amazing amount of cellular damage to the point where it would probably be best to amputate.

Now for the fun question- are you ever likely to be in that extreme of an air temperature? So why worry? But it is largely a mythical standard- yes, Vostok did have thier record low of about -130F, but keep in mind that this is a place where 200mph ground winds also get recorded. Nice trivia, but no one goes there in winter other than a few Russian weather geeks and a punishment post radar station whos crew are forbidden from going outside when it's a lot "warmer" than that record. The only reason the military worries is becuase it is a nice, round number to set as part of a standard. :jerkit:
 
-100C is -148F !!

the coldest I have experienced is -54F or minus 48C, once dropped an 8' pry bar off the truck onto bare, frozen ground and it shattered !!

knives used for field dressing Moose & Caribou didn't seem to be affected at all.....hands were!!!
 
Ironrave, stop messing up the point of the question.
People in alaska and such may find this information useful.

It would seem like the metal would get harder as it gets colder, does this mean a softer metal would do better because its hardness and thus brittleness would start at a lower point?

With the suns rays shining at you, im pretty sure that would heat stuff up.
 
I don't see how I'm changing this, fish- Wilson asked about space and I was pointing out he was asking the wrong question.

Alaska is warmer than Vostok is, you get warmth off the Ocean even in the lee of the mountains. Vostok is at the end of a couple of thousand miles of prairie that makes Kansas look like Colorado. There have been incidents of as low as about -80F in Alaska, but not -100. That's why I'm saying it is a pointless concern unless you are going to a place Russians would consider to be hell on earth. And you don't go there by accident.
 
-100 was just a number i threw out there, a ballpark. Even if you are only going to be in alaska at -80 it doesnt hurt to pick a steel that still exceeds what you need it for. I live in hawaii, and cold isnt a problem, but I do like alaska and intend to go camping there sometime in the future. I probably wont even see -80 degrees but I doubt there is a magic temperature where steels jsut start failing. Rather i think its that it would get more brittle as temperature fell, thus it would still be important to pick a good steel for very cold weather even if you may never hit the record books.
 
delander said:
-100C is -148F !!

the coldest I have experienced is -54F or minus 48C, once dropped an 8' pry bar off the truck onto bare, frozen ground and it shattered !!

knives used for field dressing Moose & Caribou didn't seem to be affected at all.....hands were!!!
Click to expand...

I've been out in those temps. Trees are like rock to chop then.
 
I think for temperature to affect the metal you a living organism would already be dead. this is for hot.


For cold i have no clue.
 
OK, let me chime in about arctic knife use. I have lived in Alaska most of my life and grew up here. I was a mixed rock and ice climber and an alpinist. There is no such thing as 70 below tools or detail work. I have many friends that work on the north slope all year long. When it hits -70's it is painful just to walk 10 feet between buildings in full gear including mittens that would prevent any use of a knife. When we are climbing we dont go out in those temps ever, unless we have no choice at all. Our knives were kept inside clothes so that if we did need them they were not frozen. Nothing works at 70 below. You need special grease just for an axle to turn at that temp. The temps I am comfortable with stop at 40 below. At 50 below your lungs hurt when you breathe, you eyelashes freeze together with each blink, and the cold cuts through your gortex fleece or down like butter. I dont think that antartic trekkers pull out there knives and use them until they are somewhat warm inside there tent. I almost never used a knife climbing but used my ice axe nonstop. If I needed to pry or chop something I used my techincal axe since I wouldnt have to take off my gloves.

Just my 2 cents, wether your knife can handle 80 below or not, you cant. Even if you brave it for a bit your exposed hands would freeze to the knifes metal parts and your tissue would freeze soon after. Also I have seen 100 below but this is with alpine winds figured in and I was safe inside a snow cave, they hold very steady temps when made correctly. Just because it reaches these temps doesnt mean anyone is out in them or that you could do anything with a knife during such extremes.
 
ironraven said:
Space is neither hot nor cold. Space is vacuum or near enough- as a result, it has no temperature.
Click to expand...

This is not correct. "Space" has a temperature of about 3° Kelvin (-270° Celsius), which is quite cold in my book. In direct sunlight temperatures in space, or rather the surface temperature of an object, can be several hundred degrees Kelvin higher - depends on the distance from the sun, of course (my example was for what astronauts may experience when in orbit).

-Connor
 
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