Knives Made in the U.S. Where do we stand?

[LadyEarth]

This is a common misconception. While abuses can and do happen - in the US as well - the vast majority of evidence shows how commerce greatly raises the standard of living in underdeveloped countries. The whole "a rising tide lifts all boats" kind of thing.

When the Roman empire fell, one of the principal evils that came out of it were that the roads fell into disrepair and became dangerous to travel on, and commerce was reduced to a trickle. That entire part of the world suffered greatly for the next several hundred years. Commerce is very, very important.

That's what I'm talking about when I said that the end justifies the mean when it comes to "top notch quality" and your post did a great job proving my point. Why do you think we stopped buying blood diamonds despite the fact that diamond is diamond regardless on where it came from? When it comes to China, they're infamous for cutting corners and taking advantage of the world's ignorance on how they produce things as long as they get away with it. So while yes commerce is a good thing to a underdeveloped country, it still comes with a price at the expense of disposable cheap workers.

After all, life is cheap so why not make money off of it? That's why I do my best not to buy Made in China products for valid and concrete reasons.

P.s.

 

[TwinStick]

Depends on the company. Many are, in fact, trying to bring more of their stuff back to being "Made in America". If the people buying them will support the price increase, then it is a win-win for everyone involved. Big gamble for the company if they are wrong. Then there is the "i wont spend but $10-$20 for any knife" crowd.... & we ALL know some of them. Lots of issues for companies to consider. It is what it is. I have knives made from all over the world. I really like them all. I prefer my Made in America knives. I do not always have the money to buy what i want & have to settle for what i can afford. I think many of us are in that category.

 

[daveb068]

So you're ok with a product made by enslaving children that works 18 hours days for 7 days a week, eating only rice and sleeping on concrete floors only as long as the quality of the product is top notch? Guess it's a case of "the end (product) justifies the mean".

So you have been there and personally witnessed all these atrocities? It's his money he can spend it where and with whomever he chooses.

 

[sodak]

That's what I'm talking about when I said that the end justifies the mean when it comes to "top notch quality" and your post did a great job proving my point. Why do you think we stopped buying blood diamonds despite the fact that diamond is diamond regardless on where it came from? When it comes to China, they're infamous for cutting corners and taking advantage of the world's ignorance on how they produce things as long as they get away with it. So while yes commerce is a good thing to a underdeveloped country, it still comes with a price at the expense of disposable cheap workers.

After all, life is cheap so why not make money off of it? That's why I do my best not to buy Made in China products for valid and concrete reasons.

P.s.

I'm really having a hard time following your logic. You would prefer not to trade with poorer countries so that their people can remain in poverty and not learn a trade? Or do you have another plan to help? Or do you just feel that you are better than everyone else since you are boycotting a country?

Be careful judging others, we might judge you as well. Nothing is as hard to do gracefully as getting down off your high horse.

 

[PigmonkeY]

I think the laws on the books regarding what "Made in USA" means need to be rewritten (if it's any kind of law in the first place...). As it stands now I'm pretty sure you can have a knife fully manufactured in china, shipped disassembled to america, put together by some minimum wage slave in a warehouse and they can still slap a "made in USA" logo on it.

 

[LadyEarth]

So you have been there and personally witnessed all these atrocities? It's his money he can spend it where and with whomever he chooses.

True. But going back to my point, are you ok with buying Blood Diamonds knowing the history behind it? Are you ok with buying tainted milk from china to feed your newborn baby knowing that it will harm the child? How about for your pet animals? There are many more such stories (or would you rather be a victim in order to believe it?), some are even voiced by the former employees that used to work under such condition in China. I've worked with Chinese products, reassembling them (bikes) for sale and I can see the lack of care when they put them into the boxes to be shipped to America (thus making my work harder as I have to correct any defects from neglect so the company I worked for wont lose money). I've seen papers from those boxes of Chinese workers expressing sadness or other wants of better conditions. So yes, I know what I am talking about, thanks.

 

[LadyEarth]

I'm really having a hard time following your logic. You would prefer not to trade with poorer countries so that their people can remain in poverty and not learn a trade? Or do you have another plan to help? Or do you just feel that you are better than everyone else since you are boycotting a country?

Be careful judging others, we might judge you as well. Nothing is as hard to do gracefully as getting down off your high horse.

I would rather help them, but not at their expenses. You do realize that corporations do not care what happens to expendable workers, right? That picture I posted is evidence of such lack of care, thus people in other countries are taken advantage of rather than having same quality of life as America has. If I have to abstain from buying a product from a company that supports or contracts with an entity in china that has no respect for workers, then I will do so.

But then again, anything can be justified. Even the culture of Hunger Game novels could be justified in real life if there are enough people to want to continue it.

I stand by my principle. You can stand by yours. Difference is, I know my reasons for the long run while others just do it for instant gratifications.

 

[PigmonkeY]

Lets not forget what happened in Australia/USA from a Chinese produced toy called "bindeez" [aqua dots in USA] (you can google for them). A chemical substitution (to save money) in the plasticizer on the toys was GHB (date rape drug) instead of the original inert material specification. I'm pretty careful about what I buy from china, knowing full well that a lot of it will be either tainted with heavy metals or not as described. This being said, I've bought a few things from chinese bargain shopping websites that have worked out well. Mostly simple things like mouse pads and USB cable extensions.

 

[sodak]

True. But going back to my point, are you ok with buying Blood Diamonds knowing the history behind it? Are you ok with buying tainted milk from china to feed your newborn baby knowing that it will harm the child? How about for your pet animals? There are many more such stories (or would you rather be a victim in order to believe it?), some are even voiced by the former employees that used to work under such condition in China. I've worked with Chinese products, reassembling them (bikes) for sale and I can see the lack of care when they put them into the boxes to be shipped to America (thus making my work harder as I have to correct any defects from neglect so the company I worked for wont lose money). I've seen papers from those boxes of Chinese workers expressing sadness or other wants of better conditions. So yes, I know what I am talking about, thanks.

You like steering discussions off course, don't you? The OP was asking about knives. By the way, I've lived in China, so I know what I'm talking about as well.

I would rather help them, but not at their expenses. You do realize that corporations do not care what happens to expendable workers, right? That picture I posted is evidence of such lack of care, thus people in other countries are taken advantage of rather than having same quality of life as America has. If I have to abstain from buying a product from a company that supports or contracts with an entity in china that has no respect for workers, then I will do so.

But then again, anything can be justified. Even the culture of Hunger Game novels could be justified in real life if there are enough people to want to continue it.

I stand by my principle. You can stand by yours.

I also realize that most activists don't care about others either. So what is your remedy for this imperfect world? Don't trade and let the workers starve? Trade but not like the conditions? Only trade if certain conditions are met?

Sitting around wishing things were different doesn't help anyone. I've always wished that I would be 6'4" and play in the NBA, but that ain't gonna happen.

Difference is, I know my reasons for the long run while others just do it for instant gratifications.

Absolutely false. They are doing more to help than you are, that's for sure. It might sound noble on the HuffPo, but outside of that little bubble most people are smarter than that.

Ok, so I apologize to the OP for getting baited off target. I'm not aware of ANY knife manufacturers that abuse foreign workers. I know that Buck and Spyderco are extremely ethical companies, and I trust them implicitly. I'm not very familiar with other companies, so I can't really comment on anyone else. I have NO problems buying a knife made in China, Taiwan, Germany, France, or the US. If the quality is there and I'm looking for it, I'll buy it.

 

[SaintlyBrees]

I try to buy USA made products as often as possible. I do own a few Chinese made knives, but not many (2? 3? not sure, but less than a handful). Given a choice (and I usually can find an alternative), I'll choose USA first and China last with other countries in between.

What bothers me about Chinese products are legion. Just a few concerns - treatment of workers, lack of pollution standards (and that directly affects everyone else in the world), lack of respect (and that is indeed government encouraged) for patents/copyrights in other countries and much, much more.

[Edit: the rising tide lifts all boats concept is valid in most cases. But that argument falls apart in a communist or dictated society. See old Russia and Cuba as examples. Plenty of industry in old Russia, and plenty of severe poverty and living conditions. What holds those folks down is the type of political climate in which they exist and the subsequent lack of a middle class. It isn't just as simple as give 'em industry and they will improve. A lot more is involved than just that, although it is indeed one aspect of many.]

But, to each his/her own. This is simply my opinion and how I conduct my affairs. YMMV.

 

[LadyEarth]

Like I said, Sodak, you can stand by your principles while I stand by mine. I've gone to my university where I've met other Chinese students and listened to their stories that added validity regarding contracted companies in China. And I'm not straying off subject, rather I'm staying on the subject, showing the side where distrust of China is valid and showing where we stand with US made knives vs Chinese made knives as per OP's post; it's just existing in a bigger picture than OP intended.

In order for China to get trust from customers for their products requires real accountability, the kind of accountability that lead the world to trust US made brand (that is, until Corporations degraded that over the last 20 years).

I have a Psychology degree so I know a thing or two about instant gratification in regard to ignoring the means to get the wants from a product.

That being said, for the OP I have noticed a thread of increase number of companies starting to realize that it's a good business model to bring back products to our country and provide labors for our American folks. Not only because it will contribute to the economy, but patriotism has it's profit for the companies including Chinese demand for US made products being on the rise due to the aforementioned reasons above that I stated earlier.

I predict there will be an increase number of USA made knives in the near future. It's a logical business move.

 

[Phil Gibbs]

True. But going back to my point, are you ok with buying Blood Diamonds knowing the history behind it? Are you ok with buying tainted milk from china to feed your newborn baby knowing that it will harm the child? How about for your pet animals? There are many more such stories (or would you rather be a victim in order to believe it?), some are even voiced by the former employees that used to work under such condition in China. I've worked with Chinese products, reassembling them (bikes) for sale and I can see the lack of care when they put them into the boxes to be shipped to America (thus making my work harder as I have to correct any defects from neglect so the company I worked for wont lose money). I've seen papers from those boxes of Chinese workers expressing sadness or other wants of better conditions. So yes, I know what I am talking about, thanks.

So you assemble bikes for a living & are an expert on Chinese Labor Practices?

You do realize that corporations do not care what happens to expendable workers, right?

Where did you glean that little nugget of mush?

Go visit some Chinese factories & sub contractors a few times, then, maybe, you might have a clue what you are talking about. As of now, not so much.

 

[LadyEarth]

What SaintlyBrees said

:thumbup:

 

[B.F.U]

Well this is just ridiculous.

 

[LadyEarth]

So you assemble bikes for a living & are an expert on Chinese Labor Practices?



Where did you glean that little nugget of mush?

Go visit some Chinese factories & sub contractors a few times, then, maybe, you might have a clue what you are talking about. As of now, not so much.

Regarding bikes, cute impulsive assumption. Erroneous but nevertheless cute.

I suppose you chose not to be observant on what is happening in other countries? I chose to do research in college on such things and actually contacted Chinese counterparts (hence them telling me stories of their own experiences) and that's the general conclusion I've came to. General mind you because some folks seems to like to see my comment in black and white apparently.

 

[Phil Gibbs]

Regarding bikes, cute impulsive assumption. Erroneous but nevertheless cute.

I suppose you chose not to be observant on what is happening in other countries? I chose to do research in college on such things and actually contacted Chinese counterparts (hence them telling me stories of their own experiences) and that's the general conclusion I've came to. General mind you because some folks seems to like to see my comment in black and white apparently.

I just fly over there, visit the Cutlery factories, work with & train the workers. Eat with them & in some cases their families.

I am sure you anecdotes from a couple of rich Chinese students are far more pertinent.

 

[daveb068]

And this is why I try to stay away from general. There really is no need to continue this discussion. If you don't like it don't buy it. Simple.

LadyEarth: Why is it that most threads you participate in end in this manner? It's fine for you to believe and feel what you do, but please stop pushing it on everyone else.

 

[LadyEarth]

I just fly over there, visit the Cutlery factories, work with & train the workers. Eat with them & in some cases their families.

I am sure you anecdotes from a couple of rich Chinese students are far more pertinent.

What is it with people putting words in my mouth when I never said anything close to what they assumed. They're neither rich nor poor, they're just lucky and got a scholarship from hard work, as if that's important to the OP's post.

Woe be to a person like me to challenge a set way of justified thinking when it comes to buying knives made in China or alas they will assume me to death.

 

[LadyEarth]

And this is why I try to stay away from general. There really is no need to continue this discussion. If you don't like it don't buy it. Simple.

LadyEarth: Why is it that most threads you participate in end in this manner? It's fine for you to believe and feel what you do, but please stop pushing it on everyone else.

So you're saying it's ok for people to encourage folks to buy from China but it's not ok for people to encourage others not to buy from China? That's an odd way of going about it. I apologize if I'm challenging an established justified norm...

Edit: P.s. it's not "most" threads. It is just the one involving China which is very few threads (I believe only 2 or maybe 3 threads. The rest of the others are completely unrelated).

2nd Edit: I'm out. Both side made their thoughts and points. To continue it would be a redundancy.

 

[Smokinape]

I prefer to buy American because I am an American.