Knives & NYC Buildings & Museums

Originally posted by NeedleRemorse
If I know I'm going to any buildings I just leave my knife in the car. It's really not worth bringing it to the museum or anything, there's not much to cut and it's too public to need it for self defense.
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So I get up in the morning, get dressed, -- including Sebenza, SAK, and a small neck knife -- and go out. I walk ten minutes up the street to the Metropolitan Museum of Art and get told they won't let me in with the knives. I leave the museum and walk around to the back where I go for a walk through Central Park ... glad I have my knives ...

Leave them in what car? I walk or take the train or bus to where I'm going, when I live right in Manhattan. My home town, and I'm supposed to carry only what the wienies carry?

Fine. They don't want me with my gear, then they don't want me. I'm a big boy now; I don't need someone to change my diaper.

I don't NEED IT FOR SELF-DEFENSE. I WANT IT for utility. I don't mess with people. Why are they snooping in my pockets, messing with me?
 
I'm going to start a security consulting company. I think I'll call it
PSEUDO-SECURITY.
Our motto will be

WE WON'T MAKE YOU MORE SECURE,
BUT WE'LL MAKE YOU FEEL MORE SECURE.

What a lot of places and government agencies are doing is pseudo security (false security). It doesn't actually make anyone safer, but it may make some dumb people feel safer.
The machine gun-toting NYC police, known as Operation Atlas, may make some people feel more secure. But the Israelis have shown us that this sort of tactic does NOT stop terrorism. In fact, I believe that it is only a matter of time before one of these guys accidentally sprays a crowded NY street with 100+ rounds from his M-16.
 
Esav, I was referring to my position. I don't live near anything, so I always get to places via car.
 
WorkForALiving, NYC is not under the constant terrorist threat that Israel is. In fact, the Israelis have shown us that this sort of tactic does reduce terrorism's success measurably. Of course, going in to the terrorists' homes with full military power works even better, even if neither approach is perfect.
 
NeedleRemorse, I understand. If I were going directly to some place I knew wouldn't allow them, I could just as easily have left my knives home, then run back and picked them up later.

My point is, though, that this false sense of security the authorities are trying to put over on us is an inconvenience at best and interference in our ability to defend ourselves at worst. Somewhere in between is the problem of not having the tools to get through the day.

It seems that the Supreme Court is going to insist that all prisoners, whether citizens or aliens, are going to have to have access to due process and legal counsel. I can't object to this, even as little as I love the enemies of my country.

But I want due process, too. I don't want to be lumped with enemy aliens and terrorists, as not being trusted with a deadly Leatherman Micra in my pocket.
 
You only have to look at the UK as an example of what youre calling pseudo security.

We have the strictest knife and gun laws of virtually any country yet people get knifed and shot daily.

a few kids got shot a few yrs ago and they banned all guns

someone got knifed a few yrs ago they banned all combat knifes except for collecting purposes.

In the last year I can remember several stabbings and shootings, one recent one was a policeman shot dead and another wounded. Another was a couple of women MACHINE GUNNED DOWN IN THE STREET (pretty good going to say all guns are banned). Another recent one some guy was shot dead for chasing a thief. Bearing in mind the UK is a much smaller country with fewer people than the US and also I dont particularly pay much attention to my local news thats pretty crappy going and a great advert for pseudo security
 
Esav---I have never been to Israel so I have to work on what I am told by friends, relatives, and the media.
It seems that nothing will stop the determined, trained, funded, and equipped terrorists. They have to be stopped by killing their determination, training, funding, and equipment.---Marc
 
Way back in October 1998,I went to NYC for my first time.I only took along a plain edged Delica so as not to irritate the Airport personell.Every Airline had it's own ideas as what knives could be carried on their planes.I visited the Empire State Bldg. and the security guard in the ill fitting sport coat took my Delica until after the tour but did give it back after giving me a nasty look as he handed it back.He looked at me,then the knife,then me again ,get the picture?I asked why no pocket knives? I saw the signs on the wall showing a handgun and a BIG evil looking dagger but I just knew that a small tool like the Delica would be permitted.He told me." a while back a crazy Arab threatened to cut up a bunch of people on the observation deck so no knives allowed".
Sure is something,eh?tom.
 
If I remember that one correctly about the nutjob slashing others, it was a rather large knife. I am not sure if it was an Arab or another background.
 
Boink,being as this was WAY before 9/11 I didn't pay too much attention to NYC news stories and it even supprized me when the guard specifically mentioned Arabs in his oration.It does seem as an omen now however.tom.
 
The Empire State Building guard is probably refering to the Palestinian who shot 7 people back in 1997. See link for details.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9702/24/empire.shooting/

I was denied access to the Jacob Javits Federal Building downtown because I had a Swiss Army knife. The guards would not hold it for me. I had an appointment so I forfeit the knife.

They also have metal detectors at Madison Square Garden and Shea Stadium. The Twin Towers also had detectors. The UN Building has had them for a long time. Lots of office buildings in NYC also have their own metal detectors.
 
I distinctly remember the elaborate screening process put in place at the WTC after the first attack. It now seems like just so much BS in retrospect; just an expensive salve for the tenants mental state of mind which wound up doing dick for safety. The other buildings that put in metal detectors and x-ray screening devices after 9/11 is just another mental salve for the tenants, put there by landlords who didn't want to see the office population flee. It's all smoke and mirrors illusion of safety.
 
Originally posted by Fraser

(snip)
They also have metal detectors at Madison Square Garden and Shea Stadium. The Twin Towers also had detectors. The UN Building has had them for a long time. Lots of office buildings in NYC also have their own metal detectors.
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Screening for knives at a stadium or concert venue does not make much sense. Screening for bombs does. Scanning only keeps "equipment" out, if the scanners do a good job. No so effective if they never scan above the shoulders or below the knees.

OTOH, the Garden, Shea, the Meadowlands, and Yankee Stadium are not going to fly anywhere. Can't get the Garden to fly into the Empire State building, even if a terrorist team holds knives to the throats of all the cotton candy vendors.

Think many of the policies are put in place by lawyers to reduce the chance of successful litigation against the venue.

Happy New Year to all! Alan
 
Good Evening All-

Individual buildings making their own "calls" on what constitutes a weapon is what will make many people throw in the towel on carrying folding utility knives. Many businesspeople (for example) cannot risk missing an important customer meeting due to carrying a small blade. In that scenario, a person who may have carried a handy knife for twenty years may give-up in complete frustration.

I recently had an appointment in Manhattan with a long-term customer and was "surprised" by new metal detectors in the lobby. Security was scanning briefcases plus they had the walk-through devices and wands...so I was stuck. They discovered my Benchmade 705...but were unwilling to hold it for the duration of my meeting. The guard suggested I find a nook or hiding spot outside to squirrel-away my knife :eek: The other option given to me was to be refused entry.

Needless to say, I called my customer and gave them some lame excuse why we couldn't have the meeting that day. White-collar vendors like me have visited this building for YEARS with knives with no incidents. The customer is not "into" knives, so it wouldn't have been worth explaining the sad story to them...although they could likely recognize the complete absurdity if I relate the situation someday.

Interactions like that make me realize how truly pathetic it must be to be one of the sheeple. The sad part is that they are WINNING in the court of public opinion as our freedoms erode...

Regards,

~ Blue Jays ~
 
Blue Jays,


In what part of the city is the building located? Midtown? Downtown in the Wall Street area?

E-mail me, if you don't want to post.

Am not willing to give up.

Thanks Alan
 
Good Evening All-

A.A., this particular incident was at a government agency that has nothing to do with citywide security at all. Previously, they didn't even have receptionists...you just took the elevator to the floor on which your meeting was scheduled and walked-in.

As far as the Financial District/Wall Street is concerned...most buildings seem to be limiting their searches to briefcases and bags, but some are moving towards more comprehensive inspections. Places like the Empire State Building in midtown are completely out of control. As if stabbing someone on the corner of 34th Street & Broadway is somehow less horrific than stabbing a person on the building observation deck?

Thankfully I only have to travel to visit some of these customers twice per year. Somehow it seems absurd to call their building management a week before the meeting to learn their security policies. Very interesting thread.

~ Blue Jays ~
 
Originally posted by MW740
I had some frends come in from out of town, and they wanted to go to the U.S.S. Intrepid museum. I got on-line and checked out the rules. I didn't see anything about knives in perticular, but I did learn that they had a security check point at the front door. So, istead of carrying my 806D2, I put my CRKT Mirage on my keychain hoping that I wouldn't have any problems. As I approached the metal detectors, I emptied my pockets into the little basket, and the security guard saw the 2.5" bladed Mirage on my keychain. I was then told that I could not enter the museum with the knife, and that I would have to leave it at the security gate to claim as I left. I find these rules not only rediculous, but pointless and just plain old stupid. :barf:
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But ya went in after leaving the knife at the security gate anyway, thus telling them, "Duhhh, O-kay." Didn'tcha?

(I'm just assuming here. Forgive me if I'm wrong.)

That's the big problem. Not enough people are willing to speak to a manager, tell them why their policy is idiotic, tell them they are leaving with the money they would have spent, and write a letter to the head of the company explaining why they object and why they won't spend money with the company anymore.

And in the end, you get what you pay for. In this case, you pay money to have your rights taken away, for the illusion of security.

---Jeffrey
 
Originally posted by Esav Benyamin
WorkForALiving, NYC is not under the constant terrorist threat that Israel is. In fact, the Israelis have shown us that this sort of tactic does reduce terrorism's success measurably. Of course, going in to the terrorists' homes with full military power works even better, even if neither approach is perfect.
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Yesss, that's why there are no longer any suicide bombings in Israel.

Just what are you saying, Esav? That if it were not for the soldiers on the corners with rifles, there would be even MORE chaos, uncertainty, and death-by-terrorism in Israel? I'd say there's plenty.

How can you say "blah blah works even better?" HOW is it WORKING? All that keeps happening is "terrorist attack : reprisal against his home... terrorist attack : reprisal against his home..." over and over. Perhaps one gets some sort of vengeance-pleasure out of giving back what one gets... but if the goal is stopping anyone from carrying out terror, it's not working.

When the first suicide bomber hits in New York city, and then the second, we'll see how well Operation Atlas worked. Frankly, I'm surprised it has not happened already.

---Jeffrey
 
I was just at the Museum of Natural History at Central Park West and 81st st. this past weekend and they searched(barely) my wifes purse, and waved me in with my normal list of EDCs.

I believe their main concerns are explosives, besides you would have to be an idiot to run into a museum full of New Yorkers and Jerseyians with nothing but a pocket knife and scream "This is a hijacking everyone stay calm and no one gets hurt!"
 
Good Evening All-

Originally posted by peacefuljeffrey
"...But ya went in after leaving the knife at the security gate anyway, thus telling them, 'Duhhh, O-kay.' Didn't cha?

And in the end, you get what you pay for. In this case, you pay money to have your rights taken away, for the illusion of security..."

-- Jeffrey --
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PeacefulJeffrey, your commentary is right on the mark. The unfortunate situation for many is that they may have traveled hundreds (or thousands) of miles to visit New York City or similar metropolitan area.

To play the devil's advocate...The hypothetical visitor may have a spouse and excited, wide-eyed kids in tow. The decision to NOT visit the Empire State Building due to principle over a folding knife may not sit well with these co-travelers. Is the civics lesson you teach them worth it?

Unfortunately, this is where the sheeple are winning because they continue to encourage and promote the "hassle-factor" at every turn. Metal detectors are ubiquitous anymore. Heck, we even have movie theaters that reserve the right to inspect purses and bags at the time of ticket collection...for security, of course.

Hoo-Boy! :confused:

Regards,

~ Blue Jays ~
 
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