Knives, Strangers and Rat Finks

[Roj Avon]

I'm sure many of you have been following the developments of our friend Solid Soldier in Fresno as he faces his legal troubles because of some Campus Cops and the ever popular "anonymous tip".

This revoltin' development has caused me to carefully consider who I talk to about knives, guns, and other tools and how I carry and display the items I own.

Obviously, from reading the background of Soldier's story, he has some enemies he was unaware of up until now. My take on this is that his casual talk about knives and perhaps guns as well made him a target for someone with an axe to grind whether against him personally or just against knives and weapons in general.

So my question is this for all of you "knife nuts": How careful are you in general about discussing your collections, carry habits, or views on guns? Do concerns like this cause you to perhaps not use your preferred method of carry in favor of a less visible method?

Are we almost to the point where we need a secret handshake or something to identify those who are "safe" to talk to? It's pathetic that we have to consider things like this but the backlash of some of the recent violence in schools and workplaces is that an uninformed collegue could easily turn informant.

Any thoughts?

 

[HankS]

Hi Roj!

I'll start by saying the obvious, "people are people, and cops are people." Soldier's story is a sad one, but not without some interesting details. In some of his other posts, soldier says that at the time, he was still into a "goth" style of dress. Now, picture him discussing knives down at the precinct with the rest of the officers! Do you think that some of these guys might be looking at him through "non-objective" eyes? I've got a feeling that whoever the "anonymous tipster" is, he's not a big fan of "goths", has them "profiled" as criminals and set about to do his weasel work. Just my thoughts and opinions, though, and the truth may never be known.

Back on topic, I feel that discretion is the better part of valor in this situation. I carry my tools with me, and use them in appropriate situations. I also discuss about them similarly. My "enthusiam" for steel isn't always appreciated in our current environment, so I let my day to day actions speak for me instead. I keep a smallish blade with me for box openings in front of others. I have a larger tool for heavier cutting, along with a backup, a multitool, and a flashlight. I wear cargo pants and shorts for this reason. My job facilitates this ( I'm a desktop Systems and Network Mgr.). I don't bring fixed blades or very large folders to work. The larger tools are carried via clips, the multitool and smaller blade are both deep pocket carry. Occasionally, I'll change my strong side front pocket clip to deep pocket if I think I might offend anyone in a group situation, but not when out and about, like shopping, etc.

Hank

 

[Roadrunner]

I won't hide what I carry or how I carry it unless I'm in a situation in which carry is illegal, where of course I won't have anything at all. My daily carry is usually some kind of SAK, a Camillus EDC and or a Spyderco Rookie along with a serrated Delica. I don't consider any of these big enough to warrant anyone being frightened or offended. They're useful, reasonably sized tools which I'm legally allowed to carry, so I don't have to answer to anyone for carrying them. I don't do stupid stuff with them like try to intimidate people, I just bring them out to cut stuff when it needs cut. That's all the more allowance I'll give sheeple.

 

[alex_111]

grr! it's so frustrating to hear about people being targeted based on appearances! it's always going to happen, i suppose, because people seem to have trouble using their minds, let alone opening them.
i often find myself in similar spots, judged based on my appearance by peers, professors, cops, etc., so to hear that solid's troubles may have been caused by someone who simply "didn't like goths" really gets my goat. how can anybody say something like that? it's the same as assuming that all people who have a similar haircut are all the same and share the same negative qualities. or people that wear pink shoes. or who have 9 fingers. or dress in black. or carry knives.
damn.
aleX.

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"i flip you... i flip you for real..."

 

[Razoredj]

I tell anyone with whom I am in friendly association that I collect "pocket knives." I do so in cheerful, enthusiastic tones. I regularly show my coworkers the "knife of the day," and over time I've worked my way from the most benign, teeny tiny Gent's folders to some truly large hardware.

It's amazing what people will get used to, especially if they see you as Cheerful Friendly Knife Collecting Guy, rather than Surly Creepy Knife Carrying Guy. I openly carry and use knives around the office that would have caused my boss or coworkers to freak out had I done it the first day.

Of course, I'm not in a controlled environment like a college campus, nor do I work for a really large corporation (where the atmosphere regarding that which is not PC might be considered similar). Still, this approach worked for me at previous jobs in environments of different sizes.

-Razor

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AKTI #A000845

[This message has been edited by Razoredj (edited 06-05-2001).]

 

[Dr van Nostrom]

Roj
It is sad times we live in. I choose my carry knife for the day according to where i am going to be. Weekends at the gun range I know i am arround intelligent people who share my hobbies (ok , obssessions

) so pulling out a Sifu (if I had one!) or such 'scary' knife wouldn't be a problem. As I work in an office my EDC tends to be a 3 - 3.5" folder - mini AFCK, mini Task or such - it suffices in the tough extremes of a modern office

. I am often hesitant to talk about my love of firearms and knives - people always seem surprised 'ohh you seem such a nice person, why do you need all of those weapons?" Hey I THINK I AM nice, I think most knife/gun nuts are nice! They are some of the nicest people I have met/dealt with.
Societies seem to need a group to frown upon, and the groups change and displace each otherdepending on the current climate - if we were living 100 years ago this dicussion would probably be redundant but another group would be under fire.
I like the idea of a secret handshake! Hopefully it will never come to us meeting in secret in underground vaults at midnight!!! I carry a small Opinel keyring hopefully fellow nuts will see it a sign that I am a brethren!

 

[Steve B.]

I`ve been thinking about this same thing recently and come to the exact opposite conclusion. I will not be a closet knife and gun owner. I think people need to see that folks like me, and not just "Surly Creepy" guys like to cut and shoot things.

Being a gun owner in Massachusetts is a lot like being gay. (Stay with me moment while I explain the analogy.) As you know, Massachusetts is a very liberal state with some of the most oppressive, restrictive gun laws on the books. Not owning a gun is the norm. When I meet people, either at work or elsewhere, I have to wonder if that person`s opinion of me would change if they knew I was a gun owner. Would I not get the job? Would their kids not be allowed to play with my kids? Would I be perceived as "different" somehow?

I guess this is an everyday dilemma for gay folks. Some stay in the closet, but most are out and make the best of it. I`ve decided that I`m going to be an "out and proud" knife and gun owner and make the best of it. I think many people would love to see us quiet and afraid. They`d like us to just go away. I don`t want this to happen. I might end up having to move to Vermont, but we`ll see!

 

[anthony cheeseboro]

I have never hidden my interest in knives but I do not eagerly share my hobby under any circumstances. I have learned over the years that everyone does not need to see all my knives or even know that I collect them. At work many people know that I collect knives but I make it a point to only take out small knives if I have to use one. I strongly believe that many knife nuts are too hung up on their legal rights and refuse to accept that public perception matters. As a black guy, I know all too well that how people see you can often trump who you really are. Although I realize that no amount of "reasonableness" can completely erase predjudice, it can reduce its impact. Although I sympathize with someone like Solid Soldier who is in a terrible bind. I hope that next time he takes out a knife on campus, it is a Spyderco Dragonfly, Mouse, Benchmade 330, or a Chris Reeve Umfaan, rather than a Buck Strider Tanto. True enough, someone still might comment, but I believe that in the long run he would suffer alot less grief. That is not to say that big knives are bad. I love them. I just think that they are more appropriate at a campsite or construction site, or around the house than in an office or a college campus.

 

[CH]

You certainly have to use some common sense when it comes to how you dress, who you talk to, and what you talk about. If you are dressed the same way as the majority of people being arrested by your so-called police friends, and you are talking about weapons, you are in for trouble.
If you work around sheeple, like most of us, then you must be careful what you carry as far as weapons go.
People, whether they be the average citizen or the street cop, stereotype or "profile" everyone around them. It is a survival instinct. Whether you want to admit it or not is another matter. As Clint Smith says, "We're all the same but different."
Obviously some people don't fit into a category based on how they look, but for the most part, they do. If you look like a gang member, and act like gang member...

.
Dress and act the way you want to be treated. Don't complain that someone treats you like a street thug if you look like one.

 

[Razoredj]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Dress and act the way you want to be treated. Don't complain that someone treats you like a street thug if you look like one.</font>

[This message has been edited by Razoredj (edited 06-05-2001).]

 

[allenC]

I have to agree with Clayton. It may not be "fair" but people are judged on their appearence. This is a simple fact of life. If I wear a t-shirt with a Confederate flag on the front, folks will probably think: I'm from Dixie, and/or I'm a white racist, and/or I don't like black people. This is not be true (except I am from the South) but that is what folks will think.
I wear a Carolina Panthers hat because I am a Panthers fan. If a person is wearing a USMC shirt, it stands to reason that he is or was in the Corps or knows someone who is/was.
If a man has a 3-piece suit on and clean smooth hands with manicured fingernails, I'll bet he's not a plumber or a brick-mason.
On average taller men make more money, and pretty slim women are more likely to get help from men than fat more homely women.

The only real question is: did Solid Soldier violate any laws?

 

[Colinz]

Roj Avon,

I think that you might be right about hiding your interests and use secret handshakes. The legal issue that has come up in California and is discussed right now in the forums is just the beginning, I believe. "They" will take away your automatics (what´s happening in Florida by the way), balisongs, one-hand opening folders, and lockblades. Count on it. It´s just a matter of time.

Where I live you can´t tell anyone except your closests friends that you have an interest in knives. You are not allowed by law to carry a knife (unless you are a carpenter or something like that). That means you have to carry it concealed, all the time. Forget about using it (even if it is a SAK) for anything. You will get a

response everytime (unless you are out in the woods).

This is one law that I don´t care about. I carry one for my selfpreservation. Sure, I think my ASP is better for the job (forget about handguns in this country) but it´s illegal too and it is easier to conceal a folder.

I´m not joking. It´s not England, yet... The really knife interested in our country are made up from two categories, hobbymakers and collectors (I myself am only in the beginning stages of a collection). The hobbymakers, as far as I can tell, don´t care about legislation because they can tinker with their knives in the cellar or attic all day and night. They usually don´t carry.

If you are interested in knives in such a suppressive environment it is better to stay in the shadows. What people don´t know won´t hurt us.

This is the reason for me not to reveal my real identity on this forum and why it took four months until I revealed from what country I come from.

Quite understandable under these circumstances, isn´t it.

/Colinz

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"Cast a cold eye
On life, on death.
Horseman, pass by!"
-W.B. Yeats epitaph

 

[matthew rapaport]

I think given the present American culture (at least) and considering its over-all lack of respect for human life and self-awareness of responsibility to others in general, I think people are, (bearing in mind that this is a generalization), justifiably concerned about other individuals who go out of their way to brandish or otherwise call attention to themselves with reference to deadly weapons.

So if you own a gun, no big deal. Carry a gun, still not so big a deal (to me). Have purple hair, no big deal. Have purple hair, carry a gun, and let it be known that you carry a gun, starts to be a big deal...

 

[Carver]

I agree with Steve B.I carry a folder clipped to my pocket virtually everywhere and announce my intrest in guns by wearing an NRA hat much of the time.I refuse to be apologetic to anyone because they perceive my intrests or hobbies as not being P.C.If they don`t like what they see,tough ****,they can look the other way.I refuse to hide or go quietly into the darkness.

Having said that,I dress pretty much in a conventional fashion and am generally polite and considerate of others.I can`t legally carry a gun and the knife I carry is the maximum allowed by state law.However,when I`m in public I don`t flash my knife for no reason but don`t hesitate to use it if the situation calls for it.It`s been my experience that if you don`t look like trouble you won`t usually find any.

 

[Mhael]

Its sad, but true, people are generally judged on what they wear and how you carry yourself. I make no effort to hide that I carry knives, but i don't look like some punk that will go around killing people i dress nicely and carry myself well. And in HB there is a curfiew of 10PM if u are under 18, i'm under 18 and have no problems there ever and its becasue I don't look like i'm going to be going around causing trouble. This is a bad but true thing.

Under the mercy
Trevor