Knives that no one uses. I don't get it.

Status
Not open for further replies.
One thing I didn't see mentioned is that paintings weren't always just for decoration. In caveman days (you can tell I've taken a lot of history classes by my accurate terminology
wink.gif
) they used to draw things on the walls not just because it was pretty, but for a purpose. Maybe in thousands of years knives will evolve the same way cave paintings have
frown.gif


Either way, I'm still adicted to knives, and have more than I need. I guess I'm just like an art collector
frown.gif
.

~Mitch

------------------
My Hobby Page
 
Speaking of collecting-----

What if you are say, a (pick a brand) a Case knife collector. Lets say you have every Case stockman, (or whatever) made with a particular handle material, in a specific time period, and are no longer in production.
To use/carry one you would risk damaging, or losing a piece of the collection that could be difficult at best to replace.

I am pretty much a "using knife" person. But some time back I somehow began collecting a particular line of traditional pattern pocket knives. They haven't been made for a number of years, and are a real treat for me when I can find one. They aren't one of the more popular collectables, but I just plain enjoy owning them. I have them displayed in an old printers tintype drawer, (shadow box,)and will not risk loosing or using one.

I have known people over the years who collected things, such as belt buckles, guns that they never shoot, bottles, jars and who knows what. I had always thought to myself, wow, what a waste. Just stuff to collect dust and cost money, and you can't use it.

But now, here I set with a collection of my own! I don't even know for sure when, or how I got started, it just happened. But I sure have had fun with it.

By the way, I had not seen a Kodiak PA post in a while, and was happy to see this one!
 
And speaking of safes-----

I have one, and do keep some knives in it. But the ones I have locked up are ones that have been used and have proven themselves over time. They have scratches and stains and some even some rust. They are the ones that go camping, hunting and fishing, and are my favorite users.

My mint condition collectables are out in the open, and easy picking for a potential theif. But I would not enjoy them if I couldn't see them haning on the wall. To me, hiding them in the safe would take away much of the enjoyment of owning them.

So, I guess the ones I use, I enjoy their utility, and practicality, and lock them up.

The ones that I don't use, I guess I just enjoy their presence.
 
kodiak,

if you want to know if an "art" knife will hold up...use it! i for one make first and foremost the best quality knife from the best materials technology offers at this time! period! i just never read anywhere that it has to be left plain or ugly.
looking at using just expensive materials does not make it art in my humble opinion, but what is done with the materials. to me art is an expression of the artist showing his feelings and part of himself in his work. anyone can make a knife and adding only jewels and gold just to have it there thinking it ads artistic value just because its expensive materials is pretty lame.
i dont see things as "using" or "art" knives, they are all knives only expressed differently by different ppl.
maybe some makers dont use the best steels and see they are heat treated to their best for a knife thinking they will never be used, but i do! if you want to use one of my knives they will hold up as good as any knife out there with the same blade steel, as i said before many time...it just isnt a law they have to be plain or ugly to be a good knife:F
 
Thanks for the great posts guys. Tim, I was hoping you would give your opinion.

I guess to me that answers the question with so called "Art" knives but what about knives that someone like Daryl or Kit or Lynn makes. These are definitely "user" knives but there are many reports out there from the owners that "they're too nice to use".

When I got my Carson Model 4, the original owner told me he just couldn't use it because it was too nice and that is why he sold it. The fit and finish of the knife is superb and I can see the guy's point but....aren't the owners missing something potentially great here?

Pete re-profiled his Ed Fowler bowie. Good for him! You know what Ed would do. He would smile. He writes all the time about modifying a knife for ones personal use. Pete and I discussed this at length before he did it. Guess what I did? I reprofiled the edge on another custom knife to suit my needs more. I now have it out in the pouring rain to see how the Marine Tuf-Cloth holds up on a blade made from 1095.

I really appreciate all the opinions. This reminds me of the forum from a 2 years ago. I am learning a lot today.

Also...the main reason I am asking this question is because I have a Case/Bose Trapper and have been dying to use it. It's a great knife and I am leaning towards using it.

Thanks,

------------------
~Greg Mete~
Kodiak Alaska
JKM-Chai
 
We will never know what the very first work of art was, but I think you can make a strong case that cutting tools were the first art objects on earth.

A recent excavation in Blombos Cave, in South Africa, uncovered some beautiful stone points that were made around one hundred thousand years ago. You don't have to be an archaeologist to tell that these were art objects; not meant to be used. The National Geographic July 2000 issue has pictures of these knives and an interesting caption. It reads, in part:
Henshilwood (Chris, chief excavator at Blombos Cave) wonders whether the exquisite points were perhaps symbolic as well as functional tools. It was unnecessary, he argues, "to produce an item of this standard simply so it could be thrown at an animal."
Click to expand...
The amount of work that went into making these knives is so great, you wouldn't want to get them all beat up by using them. These stone points were made to admire.

The art knives from Blombos Cave were made about 100,000 years ago, when modern humans (Homo sapiens sapiens) were first starting to emerge. Compare that age to the time period when the first cave paintings and stone figures were made: only about 20,000 to 30,000 years ago.

A less clear, but much older, example of art knives might be later Acheulean handaxes. Some of the last handaxes made by Homo erectus 300,000 to 500,000 years ago show signs of being art knives. There are examples that show little or no wear along the edge, while other examples are huge; much too large to use comfortably. Some handaxes have been found stuck into the ground, point first, on purpose; perhaps for display. www.personal.psu.edu/users/w/x/wxk116/axe/

So, you can disagree with the idea of "art" knives on principle, but art knives have been around for a long time. It's even possible, and maybe probable, that art knives are older than any other work of art and even older than humans!
 
kodiak,

i agree that people are missing out on how really good the custom knives perform by not using them. they are "too nice" but still should be used
smile.gif
then they would seem even nicer i think.

even after use, like the historical blades in museums, their beauty in design and craftsmanship still show through brightly
smile.gif
i honestly wish people would use some of my knives, i would like to know how they perform.
 
Very good topic indeed!!

Personally I would never buy a knife that I couldn't use, BUT, I can see the point of view for just being a collector and enjoying looking and just simply appreciating the beauty of a knife. There is one knife that I absolutely love, it is in Blade magazine August 2000 issue page 18 at the top, simply beautiful, it was made by Gaetan Beauchamp, jeez, it is just amazing!!!!!!!

------------------
Cameron

011.gif
"It takes a killer...to stop a killer"
uriel.gif

A few of my balisongs
My Photopoint album
 
Well Guys, IMHO, I think this is one of the best threads that has come along in quite awhile.....

I have an album in my photopoint site that I wanted to share with you folks in my earlier posts, but I wanted to get permission before I done so....

I have been frequenting the MIRC chatroom for the last few months, and during that time I have made (what I would consider) to be some pretty close friends.... One of which, is our very own honery moderater Tim Herman.... Well, one night in the chatroom Tim and I were discussing various forms of art, and Tim informed me that he had painted/drew for many years.... After discussing it with him for a little while, he asked if I would like to see some of his artwork.... I jumped at the opportunity!!! To make a long story short --- Tim was an artist long before he ever made knives! I suppose it's just a gift that one is born with....

I transfered those pictures to one of my photopoint albums.... I spoke with Tim this evening, and he gave me permission to share these pictures with you folks.... If you would like to see them you can do so HERE.... There is no doubt that Tim is an artist.... He has transformed his unique ability to make things beautiful into knifemaking, and he really takes pride in what he does. I heard somewhere that Tim may very easily spend up to 8 hours just finishing a blade!!!

As far as using an expensive knife.... Well, I am quite certain that the Price Dagger (made by Tim Herman, Pic in my photopoint album) is one of the most beautiful knives that I have ever laid eyes on... If I was able to afford it, I would never even consider using it!!! I would just appreciate it for what it is.... Art! Now, I have no doubts about Tim's knifemaking ability... I am quite certain that his blades would perform flawlessly.... I just couldn't bring myself to use something so beautiful.... However, Tim has plans to make a very small, limited edition run of cheaper user knives.... I would have no problem in using one of those!

On the other hand, I have a Carson Folder on order which will have Ironwood Scales and Mike Norris Stainless Damascus blade/bolsters..... When I placed the order with Kit, I had one thing in mind.... A beautiful knife that I could, and would, carry and use! It is going to have a drop point blade with a slight recurve, and I cannot wait to cut something with it..... Is using the knife going to hurt the value? Probably so, but Mike Norris' Stainless Damascus combined with Kit Carson's rock solid folders just has to be used! In reality, how much is the value of the knife going to go up in 20 years? Two times? Maybe 3? I don't really care, because I will get more enjoyment out of carrying and using that knife then money could ever replace! I didn't order it to be a collector, I ordered it to be a beautiful, long-time user!!!

IMHO Greg, if you have a nice Case/Bose Trapper that you want to carry and use, then by all means, do so! I am almost certain that you will not regret it! I'd say you will receive more satisfaction from being able to carry/use the knife then what money it will be worth in 20 years....

Again, these are just a few of my opinions! Take them with a grain of salt!!!




[This message has been edited by GeneL74 (edited 10-22-2000).]
 
Wow!! This is amazing. I agree with everything Tim said!!!
biggrin.gif




------------------
Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
Tim, send me a couple of Slivers.... me and the boys will put 'em thru the wringer for ya.
wink.gif


I look at this topic with a bit of a different slant. A beautiful custom knife is not only a fine work of art, or a strong solid user. In my opinion, the maker has given me a small piece of himself....an expression of years of sweat, blood and toil to reach a level of skill that few will ever achieve. Now this cannot be measured or valued by anyone but me, but I weigh it in anyways.

As far as using the knives in question, I feel it is honoring the maker to use one as it was designed. I think alot of people won't use a knife because then it departs from that magical condition known as "Mint", and any monetary value associated with that condition is lost forever. Personally, if I am going to get into something for the monetary value, there are far more lucrative prospects than the knife market.

Someone wondered at the reasons for the decline in value once a knife falls from NIB condition. One simply has to sharpen a knife, and it is no longer mint. Does this make the knife worthless, now that it is sharp? You'd have a hard time convincing me that a dull knife is worth more than a sharp one.

Hey, you...up on top there....Great topic!
 
If you had a Warenskis Price Repo Dagger and a Buck 110 in front of you and you had to cut some oily rope which are you going to use? If you had a couple of new quarters and also a couple of solid old silver quarters which would you spend on that candy bar the list can go on. Everything has its use just sometimes that use might not be what the item appeared intended for.Everyone will find their own use for any given object.
Bob
 
Hey Gene,
Great response. Thank you and Tim for posting Tim's artwork. I have to say that I am floored with Tim's artistic ability. That redhead just about knocked me over....woke me up more than my coffee! LOL.

I guess you guys can figure out why I posted this....it is because of the Bose/Case knife I have and to be honest I am struggling with using it or not. I am leaning towards using it. If I use it....and I probably will...I will post a review and let you all know how it performs.

I will tell you all that I certainly have a better understanding and appreciation of the collectible knife (or "art" knife). I think I will go over to Tim's website and do some major drooling.
smile.gif


Thank you all for the great responses. I really have learned a lot today.

------------------
~Greg Mete~
Kodiak Alaska
JKM-Chai
 
I had spent several years wondering how my $2,000 Ben Shostel made and engraved bowie would cut. One day at a local gun show, a custom knife dealer who had set up next to my tables traded me the Shostel for a 2000+ layer Carmon camp knife that he had picked up for $2,500 dealer cost in the early 80's. This Carmon knife was displayed on a stand and wiped down by him if anyone even breathed on it. I now had an even more expensive knife to wonder about its cutting ability. I met Durrell Carmon Johnson at a major knife show and he had pictures of this camp knife as he was making it. He also told me about flexing the blade in a vise to make sure it would return to a straight line and how he used this same knife to chop tree branches in back of his house. That was all the info that I needed. I took the the knife into my shop and cut several different types of hard wood with it. It cut very well but not much better than a Cold Steel with a similar sized blade (12") would have. This is the most expensive knife that I have ever used. I traded it on a $2,500 10 MM race gun because I knew that I would use the gun more.

Bubba
 
Greg, I love to look at this knife, but would not want to use it.
smile.gif


View


------------------
RICK - Left Handers Unite
 
I recently posted a topic in the Custom knife section about using expensive knives. This thread takes it a step further and has had some really good thoughts expressed. I like all kinds of knives, but even for my expensive knives that I wouldn't use, I prefer a knife that COULD be used. For example, both Moran and Scagel were known for making good using knives before their values rocketed. I have a few expensive knives that I do use, and that is part of the pleasure in owning them. If someone enjoys just looking at their knives, that's okay too.
As for the Case/Bose trapper, I agree you should use it. The pleasure of its use will outweigh the not very large difference in value between a mint and used knife. You might consider carrying a second, cheaper, knife with you for heavier or abusive chores.
 
I've been admiring art/collector knives for years but never bought any, probably because the practical part of me demands that all the knives I buy be used.

For me, the best part of owning fine knives is enjoying the full use of them. Not that I'd abuse them senselessly, but I won't be too bothered by a scratch or two which just adds character
wink.gif


Red


------------------
"Praise not the day until evening has come;a sword until it is tried; ice until it has been crossed; beer until it has been drunk" - Viking proverb
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top