• Preorders are LIVE for the 2024 BladeForums Traditional Knife

    Traditional Knife Information Thread - make sure you go in there and read up.

    Requirements: Be a Gold or higher member or have been a member of the forums since 6/2023 with at least 100 posts in the Traditional Forum. Preorder is for people who live in the continental US only, international orders will be separate.

    Delivery expected in Q4 2024, hopefully before the holidays.

    User Name
    Serial number request

Knockoffs

Harry Callahan

Harry Callahan

Fresh outta warranty
Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
1,750
I've noticed a prominent gun company (we all know who, so let's not mention the name) has been making knockoffs of both the Sydie Dyad and the Emerson LaGriffe. They are pominently displayed in this month's SMNW sale paper. Doesn't that violate trademark or patent laws?

It seems the cutlery industry is faced with some of the most blatant examples of copycat designs. I remember hearing a story about the fellow that invented intermittent windshield wipers. He ended up with royalties from ALL car manufacturers for years. Does it work this way in the knife world? Is Walker paid for every linerlock regardless of manufacturer? Do McHenry and Williams receive a fee for every knife with an Axis lock?

There are many more examples of knockoffs. The local Mac Tools dealer sells a certain line of knives. He had one that looked almost EXACTLY like a Spydie Police.

So what's the deal?
 
Originally posted by Harry Callahan
Does it work this way in the knife world? Is Walker paid for every linerlock regardless of manufacturer? Do McHenry and Williams receive a fee for every knife with an Axis lock?
Click to expand...

Depends on the contract, if the contract entitles them to a certain amount of royalties per unit (which can be more than 1, i.e. $60 per every 100 sold or whatever), then that's what they get. However, alot of design contracts have the company simply buy the design for a certain specific one-time fee, and then royalties are a non-issue. It all depends on what the manufacturer and designer come to agree on.
 
Originally posted by Harry Callahan
I've noticed a prominent gun company (we all know who, so let's not mention the name) has been making knockoffs of both the Sydie Dyad and the Emerson LaGriffe. They are pominently displayed in this month's SMNW sale paper. Doesn't that violate trademark or patent laws?
Click to expand...

Are you talking about Smith&Wesson, foremost purveyor of junk knives?? :o

My kid received as a B-Day gift one of S&W's "finest", I felt sorry for him so I went a bought him a Spyder to replace the sorry POS and...problem fixed.
That thing just wasn't safe to use.
 
I think you'd be hard pressed to defend a two-bladed folding knife as a "trademark" :D

The LaGriffe may be more distinctive, but it's still just a short hawkbill with an index finger hole. The concept's a fairly old one.

They may be "knockoffs", and they may be inferior to the originals, but I doubt anybody'd win a lawsuit against the manufacturer.
 
Actually Jeff,

Walker invented the DETENT for the liner-lock, thus eliminating everyone's #1 problem with liner locks (that they had a nasty tendency to open on accident).
 
Don't forget Taylor cutlery bought the rights to S&W's name to use on knives; S&W don't make or sell them. And yea they are knock off's, several models are no longer available through distributors because of hmmm lets say "legalities" problems. And I say good for them down with the rip off companies! Unfortunately there is a market for rip off's and as long as there is a market there will be sellers.
 
Hi Harry. It's a real can of worms. I'll try to shed some light.

First of all, one must remember that there is no "patent police". The enforcement of a patent or trademark is the lawyer that is hired to fight the "knock off" manufacturer. Often times, the company with the most money wins.

In the case of the "un-named gun company". We tried to stop them. We found that they had discovered a "flaw" or "loophole" in the patent. This is often done by "knock off" companies. In this particular patent, it was regarding the "boye indent". Our patent included the feature in our patent, they just ommitted it. They also have much more money than Spyderco to defend. We could not compete with the almost identical but lower priced (not that great in the quality dept) copy. We could not afford to continue fighting, so we discontinued the models.

Patents are initially an "honor" game. When honor is lost, then lawyers fight....which often makes it a money game....unfortunately.

sal
 
I have seen a few knives called La Griffe. I believe Fred Perrin helped design them, so it isn't really considered a nock-off per se.

Mike
 
Hey, ya suppose we could quit beating around the bush and someone could just come out and say who's making the ripoffs in question? or do I have to run around to all the gun manufacturer sites and figure it out for myself?
 
Was it Jones and Crisco?

I have a Slicing Mule from them (a gift from paw-in-law) that looks much like a Dyad.
 
That's a real stinker Sal, but it does shed some light on the reason some models are discontinued. It is a shame that more cannot be done. But alas, the only real victors in a legal battle are the lawyers.

Spyderco should be well compensated (thru sales) for all of the R&D they put into their product line. These look-alikes are getting a free ride. :mad:
 
Where we finally got to after many years of involvement is to carefully patent the designs or inventions and we are sure will be copied. The best one can really hope for is "first bite". In time, even uncopied patents run out.

Maybe 10% of the knife companies (or in any industry for that matter) are fortunate enough to be capable of real innovation. The rest must try to buy or copy designs, or go out of business.

At Spyderco, innovation has been prolific, we appreciate our good fortune. Many companies feel fortunate to have one or two new offerings per year. At Spyderco we average 5 or 6 per year.

sal
 
Ahh, lawyers... I understood that killing a lawyer is not considered a crime in the US ;)
And, BTW, I wouldn't buy a Delica made by S&W (or whoever else) even if they'd sell it for 1$ (or less).
 
I wrote:
>I think you'd be hard pressed to defend a two-bladed
>folding knife as a "trademark" :D

...And then Sal wrote:
>In the case of the "un-named gun company". We tried to stop
>them. We found that they had discovered a "flaw" or
>"loophole" in the patent.

Well, guess I was way off there. ;)
 
There are certain countires that do not care about, or recognize patent laws. There have been some companies (american) that have copied in the past and have gotten in trouble for this.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top