knots

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I have wanted to increase my knowledge of knots and have learned how to tie a whole bunch of them. I look up what they are used for and many are used for the same thing. My question is does someone know a source where I can get specific information on what makes one knot better than another. For example most people use a double figure 8 loop for tying in while climbing, but why not use a bowline with a safety knot. The bowline seems just as good and is easy to untie.

Sorry if you guys think this isnt too related, but it could save your life one day in a survival situation.

Thanks for any help you can provide.
 
The rule for knots is - easy to tie , easy to untie and secure. I have noticed a bit of snobbery and fads in the knots that are recommended. There's usually more than one knot that will do a job. For example I use a studdingsail tack bend just because few people ever heard of it even though other knots do the same thing !! Pick a knot you are comfortable with and use it. The bowline will do most jobs but I've been asked more than once "will that knot hold ?" when a beginner sees one !!
 
From my climbing I know they use the double figure 8 for redundancy harder to come undone. I once asked about the bowline because I use it allot on my boat but I forgot the exact reason but I think it was the redundancy factor and it is pretty easy to tie and untie because of the 8 pattern
 
I think it becomes a standardization thing. as a climber I can quickly look and make sure a figure 8 is correct (very important when students especially children are tying in). it's not especially easy to untie, but that's the point, it makes a very fixed loop. If two people are making anchor points along the same rope, having all alpine butterflies makes sense because both people can double check each other's knots. The only other knot I use with people is the bowline-on-a-bight because it is "self resetting" and is safer than a figure 8 on the very live rope used for the dive platforms on the high-rope confidence course I worked at. the bowline-on-a-bight can handle that stress whereas a figure 8 might slip, or become so tight you would need to cut the rope. that rope is about 25% stretch iirc, the standard belay ropes are 10%. I avoid standard bowlines anytime it is likley that the knot could become "unloaded" as they are too easy to untie, even with a safety knot. When it comes to life and limb, KISS is the way to go, I prefer to know a few knots very well, than to know many specialized knots that I may tie wrong.
I'd guess that other professions would do things in a similar manner, makes sense for all the guys on a fishing boat to use the same knots, because it means they don't have to think, they can just react.
 
I'm surprised Doc hasn't beaten me to reply here......

I have done very little climbing work with ropes other than a bit of caving and using a safety line when working at heights. So I'm not an expert here. However I use knots alot with my boating, fishing and trapping activities.

Here's what I might use:

Overhand knot. If the end of the cord is doubled before tying this, it makes a quick loop. The basis of the reef knot.

Overhand-1.jpg


Clove hitch. Handy, and the basis for the very good 'round turn and two half hitches' which I would use a lot for tying the boat to the wharf etc.

Clovehitch-1.jpg


RndTnTwoHfHitches.jpg


Bowline. Everybody should know this one. I've never had a bowline fail, but I do keep a fairly long tail end in case of slippage. Sometimes I will 'take the rabbit around the tree' in another direction to form the Dutch bowline. This version has the tail poking out away from the eye instead of in to the eye and I like this for some applications...but it isn't necessary to tie it this way at all.

Bowline-1.jpg


Lineman's Loop or Butterfly Hitch. Good for making an easy-to-untie loop in the middle of a rope. A figure-eight loop is probably just as good for many applications, but I think it may be harder to undo. I don't use this much, but I like it. Don't have my own picture of this, sorry.

Reef knot. Should never be used for joining rope where there'd be a problem if it let go. It is not a reliable knot, but is handy for temporary bindings and package tying etc. Reasonably quick to tie, and reasonably easy to undo. No picture available in my collection.

Zeppelin Bend. The best joining knot I've used for joining similar cords that I want to untie later. Excellent knot, but it takes a bit of thinking about to tie.

ZeppelinBend.jpg


Double fisherman's bend. Great joining knot, but very hard to undo at times. I will sometimes use a 'half' double fishermans bend to tie a cord back on to itself when I want a neat way of fastening a lanyard to something.

DoubleFishermansKnot-1.jpg


Buntline hitch. I used the slipped version of this to tie my marker flags to trees when I'm trapping. It is one of the best 'slip knots' I've ever used for ease of untying and reliability when tied. You have to be sure that the tail sits in the right place as you tighten this, otherwise when you undo it the rope will have an extra twist and take a little longer to undo. (I sent Doc a picture of this wonderful slip knot that I imagined that I might have come up with all by myself. He sent me back a picture entitled 'buntline hitch' which was identical :foot: And then I seemed to recall that he was the one that had told me about this knot a year or two ago...and I remembered the name from my younger days...possibly when I'd been in Sea Scouts). Good knot, no matter who invented it.

SecureSlipKnot.jpg


Timber hitch. For fastening the non-looped end of my bowstring, or for towing logs with the crawler tractor. Easy to undo and holds well if the tension is constant

TimberHitch.jpg


The cow hitch is a simple knot worth knowing. I use a bit of cord around a possums tail in a cow hitch knot to pull the skin from the tail. No pic.

Prusik Loop. These loops will tighten and hold on another rope. Good for climbing a vertical rope, but you'd need two loops to do the job comfortably...one holds your weight while you slide the other up. See a climbing site to see how to use these (and similar) ascending knots

Prusik.jpg


I use other knots too for fishing and a multitude of little jobs. For instance, the Ashley Constrictor knot is a good one, based on a clove hitch, for really binding things together. I've used it as Ashley suggests....as a hose clamp.

Gotta go and organise dinner. I might post more later if it occurs to me. I imagine Doc (Mr Knots himself) will come along sooner or later and provide more good stuff.
 
I'm surprised Doc hasn't beaten me to reply here......

Knot (:D) when you'll do all the work. :D


andrew7978- knots - Sorry if you guys think this isnt too related, but it could save your life one day in a survival situation.

It's a lot more related than a lot of other things that get posted here. Knots are tools, actually some of the oldest tools, and like other tools, help us to get the job done.

Doc (Mr. Knuts himself - coote is a little creative with his spelling.)
 
For example most people use a double figure 8 loop for tying in while climbing, but why not use a bowline with a safety knot. The bowline seems just as good and is easy to untie.

It's a matter of residual resistance of a knot. A knot is a weak point, for a load a rope can take, a knot will take a percentage of this load. Beyond that percentage the knot will slip or the rope will break "in" the knot.
For instance of residual resistances: bowline 52%, figure 8 55%, figure 9 70%.

dantzk.
 
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