Krein reground Endura ZDP

gunmike1

gunmike1

Joined
Dec 9, 2005
Messages
2,402
I just got my Krein reground Endura ZDP in the mail with the neck sheath I ordered. It is full flat ground, with the spine flattened for a very sharp tip and Military like blade profile, and a nice .010" thick edge. Very nice work again by Mr. Krein. Oh yeah, the 120 grit edge tree tops hairs and whittles hair, the man is a wizard with a belt sander!





 
Is that blood behind the Spyderhole in those pictures?

It looks like it already bit you ;)

Tom does great work!
 
yablanowitz said:
Is that blood behind the Spyderhole in those pictures?

It looks like it already bit you ;)

Tom does great work!
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That isn't blood (thank God), it is red marker from when it got Rockwell tested (See the dimples? It is 63RC) and the result was written on the blade. I'll have to clean it off. And yes, Tom does some really nice work, I think this is regrind number 5 for me, and they were all done great, exactly as requested as far as edge thickness and any other changes requested. It is money very well spent, as the knives just perform so much better after the regrinds.

Mike
 
Nice modification, how do you see the scope of work with the modification as compared to the NIB geometry?

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Nice modification, how do you see the scope of work with the modification as compared to the NIB geometry?

-Cliff
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Well, I sure won't stress the tip, as it is thin and sharp now as opposed to thick and rounded before, so prying is out. Cutting metals, chopping, and batonning won't be happening, but again I don't think they would have been done with the knife in factory form, either, as the pivot and handle would probably go before the thicker factory geometry blade would, though ZDP wouldn't seem to be the ideal steel for any of those tasks. I plan on using it for anything short of what I listed, it should be great on cardboard, rope, very thick carboard and cardboard tubes, wood, cutting old carpet, skinning, ect. For how I actually use my knives I really don't think it will negatively affect my scope of work, the more I think of it, it will just perform better.

Mike
 
sodak said:
Wow, beautiful! Neck sheath, you must have a strong neck!
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Thanks for the compliments, everyone! The knife is light to start with, and I think Tom took off about an ounce of blade, as this thing is night and day from it's factory saber grind! Really though, I don't even notice it around my neck when I wear it (like right now). The neck sheath is a pretty sweet design that I never thought twice about until I tried one that Tom sent for the passaround reground Centofante, and I just had to have one. The bonus is my Endura wave fits in the sheath just fine as well, though obviously it doesn't do the wave from the sheath. It helps to clear out pocket space for more hand room, or more accurately more knives on my person at one time. I just have to tuck the sheath in when I am in a non knife friendly zone, which is pretty much everywhere around here. Today I just said screw it and let it hang free, and didn't even get too many pissed off looks.

Mike
 
That neck sheath and knife both look fantastic.

One of these days I need to send a knife for a Krein regrind...

Interesting to hear the RC as well.
 
gunmike1 said:
I don't think they would have been done with the knife in factory form, either, as the pivot and handle would probably go before the thicker factory geometry blade would...
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Yeah I wondered about that as well, I think the true purpose of that origional geometry is either because people like sabre grinds (Sal made this comment before) and/or to protect the edge from lateral forces when the blade is twisted in semi-hard materials.

-Cliff
 
Thanks for the compliments, guys, but all of the credit goes to Tom Krein. I can't recommend his work enough. The difference you get in cutting ability is dramatic, not to mention how much easier the blades become to sharpen because they are so thin. I was looking straight down at the edge on my R2 (factory full flat ground with a .021" or so edge) and this Endura today, and it is unreal how much thinner the Endura's edge looks (and is).

Mike
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Yeah I wondered about that as well, I think the true purpose of that origional geometry is either because people like sabre grinds (Sal made this comment before) and/or to protect the edge from lateral forces when the blade is twisted in semi-hard materials.

-Cliff
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I agree Cliff, I think the fat saber grind is probably something people look for like Sal said, and you can twist out of harder cuts with less damage, which is a very possible use for an Endura. I just met a contractor yesterday with a Cold Steel AK-47 that he pretty much uses as a multi tool, so I can definately see some people getting abusive to the blade on an Endura, as a lower priced Spyderco (at least in VG-10 form). However, like I said, I think if you chop or do heavy prying the handle and pivot will give out before the blade anyway (the light weight would probably make it a crappy chopper), and I only intend to do cutting and not heavy duty work with this knife. With the new geometry this knife should cut extremely well without taking damage. If I am forced to chop or do real heavy work with a folder my Manix is always in my left pocket ready for action, but I would hope to have a proper fixed blade available if the need arose. If not, the Manix does seem extremely strong and secure, hopefully the steel would hold up to the rigors of my poor technique at chopping and prying (though that thin tip looks like a snapper for prying). I am planning on a camping trip soon, so I may get to test out the Manix on some tougher work soon. As for now it is spoiled and relegated to mundane chores that much weaker knives can easily handle, though I did use it to take out massive chunks of a 2"X3" to see how it did with a LOT of force on it, and it had no durability issues and handled it with ease.

Mike
 
gunmike1 said:
However, like I said, I think if you chop or do heavy prying the handle and pivot will give out before the blade anyway ...
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Yes I am thinking mainly of cutting harder materials like metals maybe, nails in wood, or just very heavy guage wire, or scraping and cutting around metals. Not prying with the main body of the blade but just with the edge itself.

Yeah the Manix is a very nice large folder, much more than a precision paper cutter, though it does that nicely with the proper edge angle due to the high flat grind. The handle is a bit flat but that is an issue with most pocket carry knives.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Yes I am thinking mainly of cutting harder materials like metals maybe, nails in wood, or just very heavy guage wire, or scraping and cutting around metals. Not prying with the main body of the blade but just with the edge itself.

Yeah the Manix is a very nice large folder, much more than a precision paper cutter, though it does that nicely with the proper edge angle due to the high flat grind. The handle is a bit flat but that is an issue with most pocket carry knives.

-Cliff
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I'll cut some speaker wire for sure, I guess I'll have to see what other heavier gauge wires I run into and see what happens. I think I will avoid the nails, as my technique isn't to the point where I won't laterally stress the edge enough to chip it badly, but I would imagine it would hold up OK if I managed to go through the nail straight. I can probably test the edge strength by cutting into some woods and prying out of them to see where the limits are before chipping becomes an issue.

As for the Manix, it is a bit flat, and the clip can bite you, but otherwise it locks into my hand very well. And yes, it does very well for precision type work for what a large knife it is due to the grind, but it can be a bit awkward cutting up foods with the massive handle and wide blade, though it will carve up a steak nicely.

Mike
 
You should see some of the things I have watched tradesmen do with knives, even very thin bladed stockmen. I think it would be interesting to see just at what point the various edges would fail, but not really something to be expected on such regrinds.

-Cliff
 
I would venture that it wouldn't be a good return on their investment for flattening the Endura/Delica series. Extra grinding costs have to be covered in the price or volume. Some risks I see are:

-Spyderco would really have to promote the issue as an "improvement," and then it might draw attention to their other knives which have "ugly" unground portions. "Why did Spyderco intentionally sell me all this crap before?"
-It might draw market away from the higher priced knives like the Military or the Manix, notable mainly due to their grind and edge.
-Warranty, given the lack of knowledgable use some subject their knives too.
-The main market consumer might not actually care/be swayed by the spesific performance improvements in any case.
 
I do not think it would be sensible to make all the knives the same. As noted there are people who prefer the look of the sabre grinds and some people also will want the greater durability.

-Cliff
 
Cliff said:
I do not think it would be sensible to make all the knives the same. As noted there are people who prefer the look of the sabre grinds and some people also will want the greater durability.
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Are these decisions made by consumers possessing knowledge and with access to adaquate alternatives? I know this is somewhat a retorhtical question, and I am on the skeptical side. I conceed it is not Spyderco's responsibility (although they may wish to take that on) to educate the public; they are a business. The leadership may be passionate, but they are a business nonetheless. And if it makes more money to produce a $50 saber Endura with 90% non-rigid lockmating (I'm being generous), then what is the incentive to produce a $55 flat Endura with 5% non-rigid lockmating.
 
It is the responsiblity of the business to make money primarily, if the public wants sabre ground knives then provide that need. Now if someone asks for something and you sell them what you have which does not fill their need then you can argue dishonesty, but to just give them what they want, it is hard to blame anyone. The fact may be simply that some people actually want the extra durability of thicker edges. That crisp line running down the center may just appeal to some just like the older blood grooves on the Bucks.

-Cliff
 
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