Kukhuri Availability

[Maniacal Pete]

I took a chance and ordered a cool looking "panaplus" kukhuri from kukhuri house on Mar. 3 to see what kind of work they do for comparison. It appears to be a medium size - 24 oz rough finished blade with a scandi grind and finger grooves in the chiruwa handle. I'm still waiting... The weekly excuses have been varied and consistently weak ("dog ate my homework" type stuff) .

I'm with the cc company now trying to get my money back. Just thought I would post a report here for the HI fans. Yangdu and HI really have it together. We are fortunate to have such an easy source for these cool knives.

As a matter of fact, I was thinking about what it must have been like to get a kukhuri here in the old days. Someone must have either brought it with them by ship, or they came in a few at a time by traders. When did they first appear in this country? They must have been exceedingly rare, expensive and hard to come by.

pete

 

[Howard Wallace]

Thanks for the feedback.

I wrestled with this one in my mind. Bill just had a couple of rules when he moderated the forum. One of them was "No badmouthing the competition." There are many good and honorable people in Nepal besides HI. They all wrestle with the kinds of troubles we see Yangdu wrestling with. Politics, supply chain, labor issues, cultural issues, etc.

The original post stands as written, because it appears to be written with good intentions. I do request that we all be careful to honor Bill's vision for the forum and not let this spin out of control.

 

[Maniacal Pete]

Howard,
Thank you for continuing to educate me.
I still hold out hope that I will receive the piece.
Do what you will with my thread!

Bill

 

[Howard Wallace]

Thanks for being so understanding Bill. I was going to call you Pete because that's how I think of you from your forum handle.

The 2 rules that the HI forum had when it started (that I remember) were the golden rule #1, and #2 no denigration of other companies. Bill used to go out of his way not to have the forum used for negative information about the competition, whether true or untrue. (If either of those guidelines have changed Yangdu, other mods, or the forumites themselves will correct me.)

The second guideline is not an obvious one since who's good to deal with and what problems are is a legitimate subject for discussion in an online forum. That is why we need occassional reminders of that guideline, whereas #1 is self-evident. There is a special forum on Bladeforums for feedback on trades and service called the "Good, Bad, and Ugly." Fortunately that gives an area for discussion of these topics without puting particular manufacturers in an uncomfortable position in their home forums.

It is a great question about when the khukuris became popular. I think they have dribbled in through servicemen who interacted with Gurkhas for some time, but in very limited numbers. There were a few low quality imports when I was a kid in the 70's but not many. I think HI and Bladeforums were instrumental in popularizing the high quality khukuri. Even in the early days of Bladeforums it was not unusual for people to skoff at the khukuri and think of it as a trashy knife/object. Nowdays someone might say something like that on the general forum but they would quickly be educated by the community as to the quality ranges and what a good khukuri can do. Many western knifemakers have now tried their hands at the style and produced some excellent blades.

 

[Karda]

Uncle Bills rules still stand here in the H.I. forum/s.
Denigration of other companies is not allowed, however, good honest discussion without denigration has been allowed in the past and could continue. I myself, would prefer that the other khukuri manufacturers be discussed in other appropriate areas of bladeforums, such as general discussion or TGB&U, as this forum is for Cantinistas to loosen their ties and discuss topics not allowed in the main forum and the main forum is for sales and discussion of H.I. product and the use and care of them.

 

[Howard Wallace]

...As a matter of fact, I was thinking about what it must have been like to get a kukhuri here in the old days. Someone must have either brought it with them by ship, or they came in a few at a time by traders...

My first khukuri came by ship. I bought it in Nepal in the late '70s and had it shipped home in a parcel with some wooden masks, Tibetan clothing, thangkas, etc. After Nepal I went on to journey in India and Sri Lanka for some months. As I recall it was several months after I was home in the US that the parcel with my khukuri finally found its way to me.

Nowdays the HI stuff travels by air. Yangdu still has problems with rust sometimes, but imagine if there was a 6 month land and sea journey involved.

 

[jdk1]

The idea of what brought the khukuri,or what we call the khukuri like object (KLO), into kind of mainstream America also involves another company, in my case at least. The first khukuri I ever saw was at a friends house. It was likely a tourist model, but I was in love. I didn't see another until years later while perusing a catalog from Cold Steel. I was overcome with interest to see the knife style lived and was obtainable. Remember, this was long before Al Gore invented the internet. Anyway, I couldn't afford much in those days, but scraped up enough to purchase a Carbon V LTC. I was hooked and still have it. To me, it's a great machete, since I now know what a khukuri feels like. But, I do, in part at least, owe my obession to this little KLO. For a long time I never knew you could get a "real" khukuri. I discovered this about a year ago and have been a regular lurker, if not poster, ever since. I think Lynn Thompson's mass marketing (and crazy antics) brought the style to the mainstream, and Uncle Bill brought those of us who hungered, the real thing. This, of course, following what Howard said, since I think what he said explains how most cultural items and ways traveled the world pre-internet, aboard naval vessels. Undoubtedly, the Gurkhas themselves bear the real blame for our damaged bank accounts. These brave men took a very useful tool/weapon and made it into something mythical. Almost as though an ordinary man needs but a trusty khuk to take on a trainful of robbers while protecting the honor of a young lass! I wonder if we'd all be carrying borongs had Gurkhas been from the Phillipines? I'm glad they carried khuks. Take care.

 

[Karda]

The beginnings.....

Reviving a Tradition

 

[Howard Wallace]

The beginnings.....

Reviving a Tradition

It's been a while since I read that page. Great history there.

This quote struck me.

As for commodities. I routinely saw the USDA cans (olive green and marked not for sale) and bags of rice, etc., sold in the bazaars in Kathmandu and other places. I never heard one person say they got any commodities free.
In the Solu Khumbu some government crooks tried to sell the Sherpas commodities which the Sherpas knew were gifts for them. The Sherpas, Buddhists though they were, became so infuriated over this they killed the crooks and took what was rightfully theirs.

The mountains of central Asia have been a rough place for many centuries. They remind me in some ways of the old west. It can be very hospitible and dangerous at the same time.

That page also has a '99 quote from Bill.

My Gorkha brother who is the owner of shop 1 with whom we established the HI partnership said it best in a letter he wrote to me. He said, roughly translated, the following:

The khukuri is the symbol of Nepal and it represents not only our country but our people and our culture. It is our national treasure.

Because we had no choice due to the prices dealers pay us we have had to make khukuris that did not represent Nepal, our culture, or our true ability -- this just to stay alive. What choice do I really have? Many of our workers would go hungry if I did not provide employment for them.

Although we still have to make these other khukuris, the high quality khukuri we make for you is what we really want to do. The khukuri we make for you represents Nepal, our culture and us. What you have done has allowed us to show the world what we can really do. Not only have you and Dai (big brother -- Kami Sherpa) given us money for our work but you have given us back our pride. All our kamis and I want to thank you for this from the bottom of our hearts.

This is from a time when HI was sourcing many of their khukuris from an outside shop. It might have been Kukri House. Perhaps one of you with a bent towards research can find a reference to the company name in the forum archives. At that time Kami Sherpa did a lot of individual QC, only letting the top khukuris from that shop into the HI inventory. As you can see, this emphasis on quality was a source of justified pride all around, and the business partner called Kami Sherpa "big brother." The first HI khukri I got came from the old "Shop 1" and is a fine blade. I still have it and use it. The HI business model changed since that time and now HI has its own shops, but the respect for the craftsmen and businessmen of Nepal is still there.

 

[Maniacal Pete]

I was thinking more in terms of olden times.
If the first Kukhris showed up in the 1500's, some laborer immigrant must have brought some with them in the 1800's.
I imagine they must have been extremely exotic.
To own one would be to hold the near-unattainable.
Now we just shoot off an email with our credit card information.
This was my original point.

Bill

 

[Howard Wallace]

Dracula was killed with a "kukri" in Bram Stoker's 1897 novel "Dracula." I guess they were around enough then to at least be thought of as an exotic weapon. I'm not sure about the 1500's though. Does anyone have any references to khukuris from that early?

Of course we have similar knives from western traditions, like the falcatta and the machaera, going back a long way.

 

[Karda]

This is from a time when HI was sourcing many of their khukuris from an outside shop. It might have been Kukri House. Perhaps one of you with a bent towards research can find a reference to the company name in the forum archives. At that time Kami Sherpa did a lot of individual QC, only letting the top khukuris from that shop into the HI inventory. As you can see, this emphasis on quality was a source of justified pride all around, and the business partner called Kami Sherpa "big brother." The first HI khukri I got came from the old "Shop 1" and is a fine blade. I still have it and use it. The HI business model changed since that time and now HI has its own shops, but the respect for the craftsmen and businessmen of Nepal is still there.

H.I.'s shop 1 in the beginning was an Arun in Kathmandu whom supplied the ghurkas, H.I and KH and was run by T.B. Bishwakharma. Later when Mr. T.B. became ill and needed surgery, he was put out of action for quite a few months. Production and quality for H.I. came to a standstill. It was then that Uncle and Pala decided to fully produce their own khukuri in their own shops and H.I. became it's own entity.

Bill Martino
04-30-1999, 01:23 PM
When we first started 11 years ago we tried to work with various village kamis but it was simply too much work. For example, it was a six day journey one way to get from Kathmandu to Phera where Kancha Kami lived and worked. It would take 12 days travel to pick up six khukuris. And this was typical. Many village kamis cannot read and write so any specs had to be delivered via word of mouth. It was simply too difficult so we entered into the partnership with shop 1. The owner had served with my brother-in-law, Lhakpa, in the 10PMOGR for several years and was no stranger to us.

For the past eight or so years our only supplier has been shop 1. If we get shop 2 going then it will be both. We can select our own materials, select the kamis who make the blades, inspect on site, and generally control the entire operation. This is why the HI khukuris are what they are.

Uncle Bill

 

[Maniacal Pete]

Dracula was killed with a "kukri" in Bram Stoker's 1897 novel "Dracula." I guess they were around enough then to at least be thought of as an exotic weapon. I'm not sure about the 1500's though. Does anyone have any references to khukuris from that early?

Of course we have similar knives from western traditions, like the falcatta and the machaera, going back a long way.

Interesting page on Kukhri on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukhri
Says the Kukhri may have derived from some earlier types of knives and the first documented ones showed up in 1559.
I was just thinking about that old TV show, Kung Fu, and how the kukhri would have been received by the cowboys and miners of the old west (of my imagination).

Bill

 

[Maniacal Pete]

The other thing I was wondering...there weren't any truck leaf springs around back then either...
Must have been a bit more involved of a process getting the steel (or iron) to make them.

Bill

 

[Howard Wallace]

The referenced wiki page says

The kukri came to be known to the Western world when the East India Company came into conflict with the growing Gurkha Empire, culminating in the Gurkha War of 1814–1816.

So according to this, when Dracula was written the Nepalese khukuri was still relatively new to the western world.

 

[Maniacal Pete]

The referenced wiki page says

"The kukri came to be known to the Western world when the East India Company came into conflict with the growing Gurkha Empire, culminating in the Gurkha War of 1814–1816."

I'll bet that was a bad day for EIC...

Bill

 

[Steve Tall]

...I'm not sure about the 1500's though. Does anyone have any references to khukuris from that early?...

The earliest references I've seen are probably very familiar to Howard:

"My notes on the back of this picture say, 'personal weapons of King Pravya Shah (1559-1570).' I assume that's when Pravya was king. This pegs these weapons as about 450 years old." -- from Bill Martino

http://www.himalayan-imports.com/Historical.htm

Copyright (c) 1999-2001 by Howard Wallace, all rights reserved.


From another HI page on the history of the khukuri:

http://www.himalayan-imports.com/khukuri-history.html

 

[snow and steel]

If HI made a Egyptian Khopesh that would be a soggy dream come true!!! can you imagine that? it would sort of be like a cross betrwwen a 30" Kobra and an M-43!

 

[Howard Wallace]

Steve, what I meant to ask about was references in the western literature indicating when the western people became aware of the Nepalese khukuri. I didn't say it very well.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

I would suspect that the kukri started getting some press soon after the British started interacting (friendly or not) with the Gurkhas.

Let's face it, the Greeks stopped using the kopis a long time ago, same with the Celts and the Falcata. So the kukri would have seemed a bit exotic.

Heck, even now they are considered somewhat exotic, just look at how many fantasy type movies like Resident Evil feature kukri these days. I kind of see them becoming a cult favorite much like the katana did -- which is both good and bad.