Kukri or machete?

Hi, I'm back. Thanks a lot guys, for the great info! The first thing that I did last night after logging out was to go to Wal Mart and buy one of those "fingers over the blade drawl sharpeners." Smith makes one for Wal Mart that has two tungston carbide blades that come together like sizzors that you lightly slide across the blade. I don't like that fact that you have no choice of sharpening angle, but it got my El Salvador import machete roughly shaving sharp (good for briars, not chopping). It seems like this kind of sharpener is perfect for field use AND kukris, bolos, and other beer bellies. Anyway, back to the main subject.

In my experience, machetes work fine for occasional or short strings of briars off the beaten path as long as they are sharp. Otherwise the swing gets pretty tiring when that dull blade brushes them aside as they give to come back and bite ya. (And that's from someone who is used to practicing w/machetes w/o a partner and twirling sticks w/one)> BUT the longer ones are great for getting the cut ones out of the way w/o letting the springy briars rake the hands. The one thing that I noticed when hackin black berries and such is that the belly at the end often cuts even though the rest of the blade acts like a stick while slashing w/a drawl. The beer bellied LTC Kukri is all bellie, so I thought , WOW! This is perfect except for the short range! Then Rugger shared his experience, (that I can identify with when using pocket knives at times caught w/o the right tool), of that S-shaped CS LTC pulling those barbs across his hands. This is one reason why I've liked the 24-26" blades over 18". A 12" Kukri would be more likely to cause this problem while limiting its use for moving briars w/out gloves. While IMHO the bellie might cut them more efficiently, yet at higher risk. The CS LTC is the same weight as my 24" machete 17oz., and might do what I need it to do when camping (I'll use a large axe at home). And that's choping medium sized limbs that I can't break for firewood and crab apple limbs & such that sometimes get in the way of where no man has gone before, here in the WV, PA, & MD forests.

I like the points that some of you have made about blade thickness vs. wt. vs. wedging vs. chopping. Give and take w/ any tool. To me for my use, light weight IS important as long as there is a reasonable amount of usefulness for chopping dry deadfall 3-5" diameter. Anything that is bigger, well I'm hoping that my idea of tying two handles to a regular chain saw blade might work, but I guess an experiment is due. The CS gurkhas are might too expensive for me and don't have as much belly that would make them a good slasher for briars, but looks like it would pull about all of what it would not cut toward you IMHO. I got to use a friend's old 1950's vintage bolo once and imediately fell in love with that ol puppy. It cut and chopped better than a ginsu on steroids through tin cans. So well an edge did it hold that I'm guessing that the steel might have been from the German mines back then. Ahhh, those were the days...Sorry about the flashback. From what happened to KELT34, I don't know if CS would be the best choice in an edge-holding, light weight, beer bellie after all. The imports from SA that I've used have been "better than bad, not good," so I'm hesitant about the imports that you have mentioned to be quite frank. But I'll take your word and check out HI's forum and get more info befor making a judgement. After all, $15-40 loss isn't the end of the world if it doesn't work, but I want the right tool first time around if we're gonna spend $70+ for a CS LTC. Thanks to ya all for all yur info. Ps: RUDY, how can I find out more about the Sirupati?



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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword let him sell his garment and buy one." Luke 22:36 & John 3:18

[This message has been edited by EQUALIZER (edited 16 August 1999).]
 
Langenbach Garden Tools has a couple of models of the Martindale machetes. British Army golok No.2 and a 22" straight back. 800-362-1991
 
I have a Ghurka Kukri and two LTC Kukris
and have never had a problem with
breakage in any of them. One of the LTCs
has been through sheer hell and is till
holding up fine. I have no experience
with the Ghurka light, however. I would
imagine that Kelt's problem was in the
heat treatment and was a one time thing
or just a one batch thing.
Also, I must add that I have never had
any problems whatsoever with CS customer
service. They have always been helpful
and prompt with replacements.

Orion
 
Gunner :

Which is better for clearing trails?

On light soft vegetation the machete, on harder or thicker wood the khukuri.

Which one is a better survival tool?

The machete will generally be lighter and therefore easier to carry. It will have a slimmer profile and thus do most slicing work a lot better. The khukuri will be heavier and thicker and is better suited to power chopping and heavier work like pounding, digging and prying.

What size/weight should I get?

Depends on exactly what kind of work you want to do. A 20" Salayan khukuri is probably the ultimate in terms of pure chopping power but would quickly fatigue your wrist. A 20" Sirupati chops no where near that but will easily handle all matter of brush clearing. An 18" Ontario machete handles all types of brush clearing well, but will go to pieces on hardwood. A 12" Ontario machete makes a great knife, and has limited trail clearing abilitiy as your hand gets close to the branches.

Rugger :

[cheap khukuri]

the recurve blade simply grabbed a mess of briars & drew them directly across my legs

That is a proplem with the construction not the basic design. I can cut light vegetation with my thickest khukuris easily (not for very long though).

-Cliff
 
Just to add my own 2 cents...I currently own two mid-size Himalayan Imports khukuris (one is a villager model and another is the BAS) and will soon have one from Gurkha House, too. I have found them to have excellent chopping characteristics, mainly for wood as they tend to have relatively soft steel in the blades. Most of these knives will also cut brush and the like, but this is not the intended purpose for the typically styled khukuri most of us think about when that name is used.
When clearing brush, vines, etc from trails, one will use mainly lateral (side to side) sweeping motions with the blade. The khukuri is poorly suited for this as they are generally too heavy. My average sized khukuris (14-16" overall) weigh between 1.5-2 pounds, which is a lot of weight. Also, most of the mass of the blade is carried out toward the end, multiplying the work being done at the end of the lever (your shoulder). This is hard on joints and muscles and you will fatigue very quickly.
These same characteristics, though, give khukuris their excellent chopping abilities, though, which is usually in a vertical plane of motion. Everything that gave them disadvantages for brush clearing now becomes an advantage for chopping!
OTOH, the machete comes in all types. I have limited use and exposure to machetes, but I am currently testing a Ross Aki custom made machete made of ATS-34. It is 1/16" thick stock, and this thing cuts all manner of stuff like butter. Plus it's lightness is easy on your body and much more efficient for the job. Different tools for different jobs!

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My Custom Kydex Sheath pagehttp://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
 
Dan, Joe, Steven, Orion, Cliff, Chiro75, Rudy, Rugger, and all the rest:

I appreciate the response. Its all been helpful. I hope that Gunner has the answers that he was looking for. I think that you have given us both a lot of options and opinions to steer us in the best choices. I was about ready to chuck it all and just make my own (not that I would do a better job than any out there), but I think that I know what I want-just don't have the time right now. As for that custom machete, Chiro, how can I get hold of Ross Aki? Can you give me an idea of his prices and designs? Aside from the rust resistance, how does the ATS34 perform in a long blade as compared to the high carbon steels that the best machete makers use? I presume that it depends alot on heat treatment?

I'm taking a long vacation and won't be working for the next 2 months, so I'm trying to be careful with cash right now. Althesame, I don't mind spending $ for a good tool or two. Like Chiro and others have said,"Different tools for different jobs," my personal needs probably require both a chopper and a briar buster. Looks like an appropriate kukri AND a HIGH quality machete are the solutions. When near home it doesn't matter that much, but while traveling, I want something that will work. Work right. Work right now. Work right now and keep on working; not to steal anyones signature....
smile.gif
The only light wt. kukri that I know of, that is recommended by some, and almost but not quite out of my price range is the CS LTC. IF it chops 3-5" dry dead fall w/o hanging up too much, that IMHO, is probably the way that I'll go. But I still haven't had the time to research the other kukris yet, so I haven't ruled them out guys. Besides, I find curves very attractive, both in blades and in my woman. I'm sure that Freud would give his 2cents worth if he were here (and it sure aint no kind of envy). Maybe I should quit calling that massive recurve a "beer belly blade" and redescribe it more appropriately.(No offense to those who can't sit as close to the desk anymore, I can't either). Back to the subject!

I guess that anything lightweight like the CS LTC is going to bite thick limbs/ small logs pretty deep and not let go any too easy. Q For those who have used your CSltc for chopping wood: Does the geometry of the tool lend itself to easy removal? It looks like it does. (Kelt, I believe that you would agree. It does lend itself to easy removal...of the blade from the handle)
smile.gif
But, if this were not to happen and it remained intact, is it still a respectable chopper or should I just bring an axe, chainsaw, heavy GH or HI kukri, or a fully auto AK 47, which would be far more fun (if it weren't for Uncle Sam always wanting to spoil our fun and take our toys away. Grandpa Jack would never do that.) Not looking for a one slice de-limber, just a light chopper that works in limmited use as a briar brushhog. This is maybe not possible w/ a light tool? That's OK it would probably get me back into shape if I'd go back to carrying 80+lb. packs like I did as a teen. Getting lazy in my old age. Guess it comes from going high tech, ultra light and going camping w/ friends who actually use BIC lighters to start camp fires. Sorry, to ramble on and use valuable megabites of space and time. There may not be any way of getting around a heavy tool for chopping. Anybody know of second hand light saber for sale cheap? Yes, That's what I want. Think I'll make my own (not that I would do a better job than any out there).

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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword let him sell his garment and buy one." Luke 22:36 & John 3:18

[This message has been edited by EQUALIZER (edited 16 August 1999).]
 
EQ-
The LTC will hang up, but it is easily disengaged.
You asked about chopping deadfall... The LTC (depending on your size, strength and how much ass you can put into it) can go through limbs up to 2.5"-3" in 1 whack, depending on the type of wood. I have found that "deadfall", once it has hardened, is not easily choppable by anything. After wood has been dead for a time and is almost petrified it just more or less chips away in splinters. I would recommend a chainsaw for that kind of stuff if that is going to be the bulk of your work.
I still recommend the LTC as being the best of all worlds (you may also want to try the Junglee Military Bolo... very similar to the LTC but a tad longer, made of AUS 8). If travelling light is a concern, then you will only want one tool and the LTC is it.
If you decide to go with the LTC, I hope you don't get one of the lemons like Kelt had.
The only problem I've had with my LTC is when I was clearing brush and hit a brick that was hidden under the weeds/vines and half buried in the ground. It took a chunk out of the blade that looked remarkably like someone had taken a bite out of it. The chunk was about 2 inches from the tip. I dremmelled it down and smoothed it out fairly and resharpened it. If you can visualize this, it looks very similar to a sharks head profile now. I don't know if this added any cutting or chopping ability, but it sure didn't take any away... it still performs as good as ever. I've had it almost 3 years and have done some heavy work with it, even chopping limbs from sweet gum trees up to 10"-12" thick. I've never experienced any weak spots in the blade due to heat treatment and the only breakage was when I hit the brick.
I will also say this-
I really like kraton handles but I had to wrap the handle of my LTC with Wilson tennis racquet grip (almost all my knives/choppers are now) because I was working with it for long hours and doing some relatively hard work. The racquet tape made the handle more comfortable.
Whatever you decide to go with, please let us know!

Orion
 
Equalizer, Ross Aki's website is linkable from Bladeforum's link page, but I think the address may be http://www.ilhawaii.net/~knives
Not totally positive about that address, though. I am currently putting the machete through the ringer, so to speak, and after photos are taken, will have a full, lengthy review to post. That's all I can say now...

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My Custom Kydex Sheath pagehttp://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
 
I tend to agree with the sirupati fans. They present me with the best of both worlds - a tool that will chop when it needs to, and a tool that will do trailwork. Sure it's heavier, but I rather like the extra exercise - don't have much time to make it to the gym these days.

I've only sold two sirupatis so far (got my first two in on the last shipment). Thankfully, the British Airways man will be bringing me more on Friday. Gunner: I'd go with a sirupati styled khukuri instead of a machette. Jeff Randall is thinking of taking one of them to Peru with him if it suits his needs.

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Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor

[This message has been edited by Craig Gottlieb (edited 17 August 1999).]
 
Kelt and Orion,
I've had a chance to read some reviews and check out some pics at HI forum and its hard to find anyone who has been disappointed with thier products so far. That village Chainpuri Sirupati sounds like a winner. At $75 (as of the last of the village models forum posted 8-6-99), it is comparible in price to the CS LTC. It says the length is 19". Is that blade length or overall? If its blade length, its got a substantial length advantage over the LTC w/ only 3oz. more in weight. Probably conveys less vibration than the LTC too, although this may not be much of a problem w/ the factory kraton handle, my own neoprene or the tennis racket tape that was suggested. Orion, sounds like you've put some major mileage on your LTC and have been happy w/ its ability to chop dry wood as any other light weight, so I think I'll go with that. When I'm back from my native safari, and I save a few more bucks, I'll probably go for one of the others and maybe one of those nice stainless machetes. Unless you can convince me that a light HI will do better, I'm going for the CS LTC this time around. Yea, a small chain saw would work better than anything, but remember I'll be backpacking and camping with it mainly. Once we're past the kindling stage, we'll need a good chopper.

Q: Those good WWII machetes were real good quality as memory serves me. Are they still available or are they pretty much extinct, now? I'm looking into a British Golok from Langenbach too. Let you all know when I get a catolog.

Logging off for today. Talk to ya soon.

-Robert

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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword let him sell his garment and buy one." Luke 22:36 & John 3:18
 
I agree with Joe, if a branch or vine can be cut with one (maybe two) blow the machete is the tool for the job. For more than one blow the wedge shape of the khukuri (except Cold Steel) will minimize the blade from getting stuck. For a survival tool, the H.I. khukuris are the best. Blade breakage is a much more serious problem in a survival situation than work. The thicker H.I. blades are really tough. As a survival tool I would take the biggest H.I. I could carry and use. Size and weight required is task specific.

I have only used the really cheap machetes sold at surplus stores. These seem pretty good for light brush clearing. The thin edge did not need to be really sharp to perform. I could not sharpen them up much any ways. These are definitely of poor quality compared to the Ontario models.

I have both the CS LTC and Gurkha, and a few Himalayan Import khukuri’s. I would be interested in the proper technique to use with the LTC. In my hands the performance is rather poor compared to the other khukuri's I own. The LTC is a family favorite for bush clearing and chopping. It gets a fair bit of abuse from chain fences, the ground, and rocks. The only damage is a few nicks on the blade. The flat ground blade on the CS Gurkha makes it a good bush clearer as well. A work is expended stopping the knife since most brush offers little resistance. The flat ground blade does hang up a lot in thicker work and vibration can be atrocious. Penetration with the flat ground blade is excellent. The kraton handle on the CS is attacked by DEET, which is likely present in a survival situation.

The H.I.’s I have are the larger thicker variety, (no Siruputi’s unfortunately). These are excellent for chopping. The blade very rarely gets stuck and vibration barely noticeable. Penetration is quite good due to their weight. Chopping becomes fun when using the H.I.’s. For bush clearing the thick H.I. khukuri’s are decent if they are sharp and mediocre when they are dull. A good place to check out how tough these knives are is Cliff Stamp’s home page and the H.I. forum. I do not have a Siruputi but many think they are decent bush clearing and heavy chopping which makes sense.

Will
 
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