Kydex rant

[Paul_Atreides]

I hate the way kidex looks period. They say it's better material and will last longer blah, blah, blah whatever.

I don't care. I have one knife w/ a kidex sheath and the only reason for that is that I wanted the knife but as far as the sheath was concerned there was no other option. (at least, not from who I bought the knife from)

I think kidex is ugly, cheap and generic-looking and I'm sure has the potential to be very uncomfortable when wearing. (depending on where it's worn)

Nope, if I have a choice it's leather or vinyl for me.

 

[AntDog]

I hate the way kidex looks period. They say it's better material and will last longer blah, blah, blah whatever.

I don't care. I have one knife w/ a kidex sheath and the only reason for that is that I wanted the knife but as far as the sheath was concerned there was no other option. (at least, not from who I bought the knife from)

I think kidex is ugly, cheap and generic-looking and I'm sure has the potential to be very uncomfortable when wearing. (depending on where it's worn)

Nope, if I have a choice it's leather or vinyl for me.

First of all, it's "kydex".

Secondly, Lol, vinyl? I don't believe I have ever seen a vinyl sheath in my life. Ever.

I like leather too, but kydex has its place. If you're taking a knife into a wet or corrosive environment, it rules.

Sure, leather sheaths look great, but Leather rots. It cracks. It warps and shrinks as it dries out. Plus, try carrying a knife in the average leather sheath upside down.

The beauty of kydex sheaths is in their use. You just can't beat the utility. It will hold your knife upside down, right side up, or sideways, never rot, warp, crack, etc. If anything affects your kydex sheath it'll be heat, and that will affect your delicate skin well before it affects the sheath.

 

[Skystorm]

Leather has been used for thousands of years in wet and dry environments. When people actually cherished and maintained their few possessions and didn't live in a disposable society.

Warp and shrink? Try setting a leather and kydex sheath out in the Arizona sun for a couple hours, let me know which one warps, Or take them both subzero and see which cracks first. Kydex is still just a fancy word for plastic.
Kydex and leather both have their place.

First of all, it's "kydex".

Secondly, Lol, vinyl? I don't believe I have ever seen a vinyl sheath in my life. Ever.

I like leather too, but kydex has its place. If you're taking a knife into a wet or corrosive environment, it rules.

Sure, leather sheaths look great, but Leather rots. It cracks. It warps and shrinks as it dries out. Plus, try carrying a knife in the average leather sheath upside down.

The beauty of kydex sheaths is in their use. You just can't beat the utility. It will hold your knife upside down, right side up, or sideways, never rot, warp, crack, etc. If anything affects your kydex sheath it'll be heat, and that will affect your delicate skin well before it affects the sheath.

 

[Jens Schuetz]

Vinyl might refer to fake leather.

From what I see on sword handles even the first plastics survived natural materials much better over the course of only 100 years.
Wood gets eaten or shrinks and expands. Leather becomes thin and brittle.
Bakelite looks as good as new.

If people just valued and cared for their stuff much more in the olden days wouldn't they also have prefered longer lasting over more easily degraded materials? Wasn't it those generations who invented stainless and plastics?

Dont get me wrong I also like me some more esthetic leather and the idea of everything basic and especially if its something I could make and work myself. Still, there's no denying the increased utility of other solutions.

 

[Paul_Atreides]

First of all, it's "kydex".

I'm just going by the way the OP spelled it. And I won't be losing any sleep over it as to whether or not it was spelled right. You knew what I meant so, it looks like mission accomplished. Actually, your comment would fit the definition *extraneous* imo. (nvm, it's neither here nor there...inside joke)

Secondly, Lol, vinyl? I don't believe I have ever seen a vinyl sheath in my life. Ever.

Yeah, yeah it was late and I was tired and meant Nylon. But by all means, keep up the immature, juvenile trolling routine...moving on.

Sure, leather sheaths look great, but Leather rots. It cracks. It warps and shrinks as it dries out. Plus, try carrying a knife in the average leather sheath upside down.

I can honestly say that no leather sheath I have EVER owned to my recollection has suffered from any of the problems that you describe here. And as far as knife retention is concerned, either pressure or retention straps hold them all quite securely. I think too much of a big deal is made about retention anyway. You want the knife to not fall out yes but, you also want to be able to get it out in a relative hurry w/out undoing 10 straps, snaps or dislocating your shoulder trying to get the damn thing out.

Yeah I know, that last line is exaggerating a little but seriously, the ONE regular size *KYDEX* (feel better?) sheath I own (correction: I have another one but the knife it's on is so ridiculously small, I seriously doubt if the definition of *knife* would still apply) has retention so ridiculously tight that I highly doubt I'd be able to get the knife out of the sheath if it was on my belt in a hurried emergency w/out just ripping the sheath, knife and all right off my belt and / or bending the clip in the process.

Nope, leather and nylon is better imo.

 

[Paul_Atreides]

Leather has been used for thousands of years in wet and dry environments. When people actually cherished and maintained their few possessions and didn't live in a disposable society.

Warp and shrink? Try setting a leather and kydex sheath out in the Arizona sun for a couple hours, let me know which one warps, Or take them both subzero and see which cracks first. Kydex is still just a fancy word for plastic.
Kydex and leather both have their place.

Couldn't have said it better myself Sir.

Right you are INDEED. :thumbup:

 

[AntDog]

Leather has been used for thousands of years in wet and dry environments. When people actually cherished and maintained their few possessions and didn't live in a disposable society.

Warp and shrink? Try setting a leather and kydex sheath out in the Arizona sun for a couple hours, let me know which one warps, Or take them both subzero and see which cracks first. Kydex is still just a fancy word for plastic.
Kydex and leather both have their place.

I got most of what I posted from a couple guys who have extensive experience in South American jungles, not from my personal experience.

I don't live in the jungle, so I have lots of leather sheaths. One of my favorites was made buy some tattoo covered, gnome looking dude.

 

[leatherman]

Careful folks, the sensitive feelings here could make a person cry.

I'm neither sensitive nor careful

Keep it civil, or I will make it civil. In no mood for "waving. whats better and whats not"

Aimed at no one pin particular, just simply a heads up, please.

This is a drama free zone

 

[Kiah]

Not sure how this drift was helpful to the guy asking about alternative fastening methods, so it's been moved to it's own thread.

ETA: Also, what Dwayne said.

 

[sonil]

....there ar alot of picturs on the net of servicemen in Iraq wearing kydex sheaths...maybe they they did not got the memo?

 

[Lycosa]

When done just-right, Kydex is my favorite. Like, Dozier, Nealy, Nease, Fairly, Helm...
My buddy makes a lined Kydex sheath that can be taken apart.
rolf

 

[AVigil]

Good thing there are plenty of people making leathers sheaths to order.

One point to remember a good leather sheath can be costly. If I included a leather sheath with my blades the cost would be significantly more then with kydex.

 

[leatherman]

....there ar alot of picturs on the net of servicemen in Iraq wearing kydex sheaths...maybe they they did not got the memo?

There is a memo, its logged in the library of congress, aisle 3, row 127, shelf 18. number 1487

But, as usual its lost in the paperwork, under the pile of memo's, in the secretary's pile of real work

 

[Neomentat]

Young Atreides, kydex is the best option to sheath the Gom Jabbar with no danger of it poking through. A Crysknife though would look at home in leather. Both material have their places.

 

[Gaston444]

Given that if you touch the edge on something hard, it will dull the apex more than if you touch it on something soft, I never understood what a hard surface sheath is supposed to offer when wrapped around a knife that you want to keep sharp...

I guess people think their edges are so hard that merely touching plastic is not enough to lose any sharpness: That is very close to magical thinking imo...

I know sword scabbards of yesteryears often had a lot of metal on the outside, but the real ones always had broad wood or leather inserts with guiding grooves, so that the edge was never near something hard at any point of the ingress/egress cycle...

Unless you are extremely slow and careful about it, there is absolutely nothing that prevents the edge from hitting hard plastic near the insertion opening of any Kydex sheath...: Even if they are lined in rubber on the inside (an extreme rarity, as are any kind of internal guide rails or spacers), the reality is that the edge always comes within millimeters of hard plastic, near the sheath opening, on all of them...

As if that wasn't bad enough, even the rare rubber-lined Kydex will sometimes mark and scratch the blade after enough ingress-egress cycles: This is because the unyielding plastic is not flexible enough to avoid creating "hot spots" of pressure on some blade surfaces, and this hot spot is usually made worse by being spread over a long length of movement...

If even rubber-line Kydex sheathes will occasionally do this damage, you can imagine the horror show of scratches 99.99999% of Kydex sheaths will do to every single blade I have seen up close, including some customs in the thousands, as one I owned: Check most any pictures of a "brand-new" RJ Martin Raven, a knife costing around 1.5 to 2k...

Leather is usually the most consistent in avoiding scratches (even if the super-hard dry beige leather Fallkniven used was an obvious a failure in that regard). Cheap nylon sheaths are also usually far better than Kydex because the plastic insert they use is made of a much softer plastic (sometimes even "hairy" on the inside, as on Eagle sheaths), and it is of a "loose" generic shape that does not "hug" the blade, thus not exploiting every single grain of dirt or sand to cause the maximum damage to the finish...

A curious and very effective alternative to either nylon or leather is the sheath from the old Gerber BMF, which is reasonably rigid, yet entirely made of rubber in its structure (the rubber then being covered in nylon fabric), including the thick rubber spacers...: The result is very strong and effective, but having the big front pocket hold something wide, flat and hard is a big help to prevent the rubber front face from "caving-in": This does not really affect function, but otherwise "caving-in" tends to look shoddy (the back face is too thick to cave in)...

Another one of the worst features of Kydex sheaths is their inevitable cheap "klunky" noise and feel, that will advertise its use for dozens of yards around... Maybe the rubberized Kydex are reasonably quiet on egress (although never anything like leather or most nylon), but they will still do a loud "snap" or "clunk" on ingress...

There may be a valid use for kydex for items that don't have delicate edges to be damaged, like flashlights or handguns, but other than that, they are better suited to pry-bars, or other objects that don't depend too much on fine cutting ability, or not looking like scratched-up junk...

Gaston

 

[Kiah]

Young Atreides, kydex is the best option to sheath the Gom Jabbar with no danger of it poking through. A Crysknife though would look at home in leather. Both material have their places.

OK, that made me laugh.

 

[AVigil]

I guess people think their edges are so hard that merely touching plastic is not enough to lose any sharpness: That is very close to magical thinking imo...

Here is the thing.

A properly made kydex sheath the blade does not touch the kydex when placed inside. The knife is held in place at the throat and the blade is suspended inside not touching. Just like a samurai sword is held in by the Habaki.

 

[Gaston444]

Here is the thing.

A properly made kydex sheath the blade does not touch the kydex when placed inside. The knife is held in place at the throat and the blade is suspended inside not touching. Just like a samurai sword is held in by the Habaki.

Yes but as you say, the "throat" is plastic, and can be accidentally touched by the edge, since hard plastic entirely surrounds the throat...

In addition, the "pinching" action of that plastic around the guard/handle means that this hard plastic intrudes "inward" to some extent into the ingress trajectory of the edge: This means the margin of error for the user to not touch the edge is even smaller than would be the case with a kydex with simple snap retention, but of course a simple snap would have trouble being rigid enough to hold the blade "suspended" away from any "internal" plastic.

In an European sword scabbard, there is metal all around the throat, but there is also a thick layer of wood between the metal and the blade, so that it is difficult to touch the metal with any part of the edge, since the metal and wood extremities are level with one another, while in a Kydex sheath the guard-pinching plastic is encountered well before the inner "void".

Another difference with a European sword scabbard is that while, in theory, a Kydex sheath can be made to not touch the blade, its internal void cannot fully "guide" the blade to avoid some contact during ingress (or the "guide" would have to be soft material anyway): The wood insert in old swords usually act as a guide for some distance, so that touching the metal is completely impossible once enough of the blade is engaged: Spacing with a mere void cannot guarantee against some limited contact with some blade surfaces, or at least the high points on the blade: Depending on the shape of the blade, this could lead to scratches spanning across the grind lines.

(I am thinking that a full flat ground blade with a full distal taper section would be less prone to contact scratches in kydex)

Note I am not saying that you cannot do a kydex sheath that works perfectly, but the shapes of the knife can be complicated enough that not all shapes will work with no possibilities of scratches, unless a thick rubber layer is used. Also scratches on large polished guards are largely unavoidable given the need for "suspension".

Gaston

 

[Kiah]

Kydex isn't akin to metal and the comparison is kinda silly. If your edge is hitting the mouth or guard area it'll become apparent pretty quickly from chips and gouges in that area of the sheath. It just isn't that hard of a material. Heck, a non-rounded guard will do a number on it in a hurry. Most of the edge dulling talk of Kydex comes from it becoming a generic term for plastic in some circles and getting lumped in with injection molded sheaths which sometimes have an internal flat on the edge side that doesn't typically happen with thermoforming.

As for scratches, yes you'll get scratches or rubs with Kydex, the former typically being from lodged debris. I personally don't recommend Kydex at all for knives bought chiefly for collecting, reselling, or taking pictures of to post on the internet as it very well may ugly up the blade a bit.

 

[OnceBitten]

Kydex is noisier than leather.

That is all.

Carry on.