Kydex vs Leather

B

Boriqua

Joined
Feb 4, 1999
Messages
655
On Andy Prisco's "Important BUSSE news to BladeForum members!!!" a conversation about leather sheaths has arisen. I have also had some reservations lately about kydex. I used to have some beautiful leather sheaths from Tree stump leather and have made some really nice ones myself and I have had plenty with Kydex.

Kydex scratches the hell out of your blade and sometimes the handle material. The sheath is often much larger than need be because of the hardware used to join it I guess, which can make concealment difficult at times. If you wear it in the waist band it wears hard on your skin and will never round or soften where it does so. Its ugly, and cant be embellished. Drawing the blade from kydex is sometimes a difficult proposition, never really had trouble with the retainer strap on most leather sheaths but tight fitting kydex has had me yanking on my belt until my undies were bunched up.
About the only reason I like kydex for urban use is that since its plastic it can be fitted with several attachments in order to adapt it to several types of carry wothout having to have ten sheaths. The Nealy setup is first rate and satisfies the Batman need in all of us.

Leather is beautiful. Can be stained in a bunch of colors as well as tooled and what have you. Its very quiet. If you stick it in your waistband and it rubs at least you know it will soften or round where it does so. the older it gets the better it looks. It will hold a certain amount of the rust preventitive on the inside. I can make one for a knife that is very close fitting to the blade for easier concealment. I have been wondering more and more about going back to leather for all my knives. To many uncomfortable kydex experiences that I dont remember having with leather.


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ALex

http://home.att.net./~a.boriqua
 
Alex...creating this post was a good idea. Thanks for thinking of it.

Chris Kravitt has made me some KILLER leather sheaths over the years too.

I suspect folks will continue to discuss this for a few more days and a separate thread for this specific topic is a good place.

Thanks,

------------------
Andy Prisco, Manager
Sharper Instinct, LLC
Phone: 1-201-493-2469
Orders-Toll Free: 1-877-557-5200

Authorized Dealers:
Busse Combat Knives and Big East Traditional Bows

Professional Svcs: Corporate Training and Stress Relief
 
Hi Boriqua

Originally posted by Boriqua:


""Kydex scratches the hell out of your blade and sometimes the handle material.

Yes,, sometimes it does. That is a fact of life with Concealex/Kydex.

""The sheath is often much larger than need be because of the hardware used to join it I guess,

Not mine...My rigs are all pouch style, and are not much bigger than a leather sheath would be..

""If you wear it in the waist band it wears hard on your skin and will never round or soften where it does so.

There are ways around this which I have used and it works fine..Mole skin or thin foam on one side makes it much more comfy..

""Its ugly, and cant be embellished.

Actually I rather like the look of a well done Concealex rig...


""Drawing the blade from kydex is sometimes a difficult proposition,

Loosen the rig up, if it's too tight. Some just plain and simple have to be tight. If it's not going to hold the blade in place, then we may as well go back to leather. I've seen some pretty stiff leather as well..


""never really had trouble with the retainer strap on most leather sheaths but tight fitting kydex has had me yanking on my belt until my undies were bunched up.

HeHe.. I hear you..
smile.gif



""About the only reason I like kydex for urban use is that since its plastic it can be fitted with several attachments in order to

Thats the nice thing about concealex.

""Leather is beautiful. Can be stained in a bunch of colors as well as tooled and what have you. Its very quiet.

Agreed.. Leather is beautiful, and it takes an artist like G2 to do a beautiful job on it..
There are just some knives that are better in a lether sheath..Agreed...
smile.gif



""If you stick it in your waistband and it rubs at least you know it will soften or round where it does so.

If you have sharp corners that bother you,,sand them down.. All my rigs have the sharp edges removed..Everything is pretty much rounded because of this fact...


""the older it gets the better it looks. It will hold a certain amount of the rust preventitive on the inside.

Agreed on the looks...Not soo much on the rust prevention.. Unless you are adding something to the leather. I've had Many a blade rust up on me in a leather rig...Be it, I wasn't taking care of the knife properly.

"I can make one for a knife that is very close fitting to the blade for easier concealment.

I think you'll have a bit of a time getting the stiffness out of leather without increasing thickness.
A Concealex rig, would be far thinner than a leather one would ever hope to be, as far as printing goes...

""To many uncomfortable kydex experiences that I dont remember having with leather.

You won't have as many carry options with leather, unless you go with a leather/Concealex combo,,using both..


I'm not saying that Concealex is the end all for sheathing... I still love leather and use it on many of my knives.I agree with you on that for sure.. It is somehow more pleasing to the eye..

As far as pro and cons of concealex.. Yes,, concealex has some pretty big drawbacks, such as scratching,stiffness,, things like this,,, but it is a pretty amazing plastic, the breaths new life into knives that have been forgotten because of poorly made sheaths. A well done Concealex rig though is a thing of beauty as well,giving the user a multitude of carry options.

As far as a rig being Too Stiff,, That's an easy fix with a hair dryer...

It's all personal preference. Both leather and Concealex have their good points and bad ,,but going all leather, you'll be limiting your options I suspect..

Now a marriage between the two would be nice. I plan on doing this with my 9" Anaconda..

Anyway,,just my thoughts on the matter...
I respect yours.
smile.gif


ttyle Eric...



------------------
Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel
Custom made, High Quality
Concealex Sheaths and Tool Holsters
Canada's Only Custom Concealex Shop!
Click to expand...
 
Great thread. Glad to see it. I like Leather, and Kydex both. I choose to use kydex for a few reasons. Here they are.<br

Safety-Hard to accidently poke a tip through kydex

Sanitataion-Kydex wont mildue are hold bacteria the same way leather will.

Longevity-Kydex won't rot like leather will

Security-Kydex will hold a knife securely in many different positions

Cool Factor-It is definitly cool

I still like leather, but I prefer Kydex.

------------------
Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker

BG-42 is now an option

griffithknives.com
GriffithKN@aol.com
Griffith Knives Forum
 
Normark and Lynn said it all. To be quite honest, given a choice between a nice leather sheath and a nice synthetic sheath, I'd probably take the leather. I do, however, think synthetics are a lot more versatile, plus I can make sheaths out of those materials, so that's why I chose to make sheaths from synthetics rather than leather. I think leather has an appeal that can't be matched by synthetic materials, but at the same time there is no greater satisfaction than creating a sheath that is compact, covers not much more than the blade, has perfect retention without use of straps, and can be carried twenty different ways!
biggrin.gif


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My Custom Kydex Sheath page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/frames.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
agocs_s@dd.palmer.edu
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html

 
I have kydex sheaths on ALL of my "hard use" knives. I have suffered no ill effects because of them. Most of them are for outer belt carry, not in-the-belt carry.
My Busse rig is beautiful and holds the knife tight w/o a strap. My Mad Dog ATAK combat rig is so well done, nothing next to a good "yank" can dislodge the knife, and I am anxiously awaiting getting back from MCRD S.D. to see what Eric (Normark) has dropped off at my door. I think my Randall Made will look excellent in a custom concealex sheath.
One question:
what thickness of kydex do you use?
What are the differences?
thanks.
Jess

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"By the power of Grayskull..."
 
This is a question I've been mulling over for a couple of days now. I want a Busse Steel Heart; if I get one now I get the kydex sheath (which I like), if I wait I get the new handle but a leather sheath. I generally don't like leather for a couple of reasons:

In wet or humid weather it's been my experieince that leather jsut doesn't hold up.

If you scrape the sheath against rocks and the like it can tear up the sheath.

If leather gets soaked, it can be real problem in the field, let alone how the leather is once it's dried.

On more than one occasion I've cut my leather sheath drawing or returning the knife.

Kydex allows (generally) more carry options.

I will freely admit that kydex has some downsides as well:

It can be a little klunky.

It can scratch up your blade.

A kydex sheath can rattle.

However, if asked to choose only one or the other for real-world practical use, I would go with a synthetic-I trust it more. Just my opinion.

------------------
"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav'n"
John Milton
There are only two types of people; those who understand this, and those who think they do.
 
CrowingHorse...

About the thickness....

Usually I use .060 on all my sheaths, except for the big stuff....

I will more than likely use .080 on yours as it is a fairly robust blade.

I've now made well over 100 sheaths,,and have yet to see even a hint of a problem,, and I keep in pretty close contact with my customers. Not one has came back due to failure or problems...

For normal applications .060 is perfectly fine.You have to care for it the same as you would all things in life...

ttyle Eric....

------------------
Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel
Custom made, High Quality
Concealex Sheaths and Tool Holsters
Canada's Only Custom Concealex Shop!

 
Okay, I'm not good with numbers so I'll say I like good thick kydex.

My grievance with leather is minimal, I don't like the soaking factor,the possibility of a point poking through, and how it can wear. However, if for some reason the sheath hit the ground, I won't be worried about pieces.

I do like well done kydex, I'm sorry I have to say well done.
 
I use 0.093" thick Kydex on EVERYTHING. It is what REAL men use!
biggrin.gif
Just kidding. I like bombproof stuff, so nothing but the heaviest stuff works for me. I probably had to spend a lot more time working on retention with that thickness, but it was worth it for me.
As far as the rattle associated with some synthetic sheaths, there are two reasons it shows up:
1) Accidentally- read: a poorly made sheath.

2) On purpose- some people try to avoid the possibility of scratching by purposefully designing the sheath with play where the blade is. I have done sheaths both ways, and I would rather risk scratches for an absolutely no-rattle fit.

As far as the different thicknesses of material go, the lighter guages are, well, lighter, of course, and they tend to work better with smaller knives. if the knife is really thin you need to use a thinner guage to get a good fit. I have a bunch of 0.06" but just never had to use it. I also have some 1/2" thick that I haven't gotten to use yet!
biggrin.gif


------------------
My Custom Kydex Sheath page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/frames.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
agocs_s@dd.palmer.edu
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html

 
Hello,

Most of the production Kydex/Concealex sheaths I have seen are rather thick and hold knives very tight so I understand the dilema. However, I have a Dozier Professional Guide Knife with a Kydex sheath that is wonderful.

The Kydex is thin and flexible and holds the knife securely but allows for an easy draw. There is no sign of scratching on the blade or handle yet either. Bob also uses smaller diameter rivets so the overall size is impressively small - about the size a leather sheath for this knife would be. Just about my only beef with the sheath is that it rides a bit high on the hip for my taste.

He also makes sheaths for other brands of knives if you send them down to him. He may be worth looking into if you want a thin, smaller Kydex sheath.

Later,

MBS

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Nevermind the dog...beware of owner!
 
Hey Chiro...

Yup I agree pretty much with everything you are saying...

.093 is a tad thick in my opinion,, but thats cool..As long as you feel comfortable with it...
The thickest I go on sheaths unless .093 is requested is .080.. That is Plenty heavy IMHO...

.060 gives you the nicest lines.
.093 works great for clips and stuff like that.. When you need extra stiffness though .125 is really nice to have on hand.. I have several sheets of each...

When you said 1/2" I think you meant .125 Eh ??

I prefer scratching on a blade to a loose fit anyday. If it's a field knife,, then it is going to get scratch anyway you look at it...


ttyle Eric...


------------------
Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel
Custom made, High Quality
Concealex Sheaths and Tool Holsters
Canada's Only Custom Concealex Shop!

 
I have been contemplating getting a Kydex or Concealex sheath for one of my blades. I am leaning toward Concealex because I can get one in olive drab and it would match my webbing.

I have a few questions about this sheath material that hopefully someone can help me out with.
1. Is it a great deal more durable than leather? ex. If I am running and fall would I be more at risk of my knife cutting though the leather sheath as opposed to puncturing the concealex.

2. How does it hold up in extreme temperatures? Where I live it can easily reach -40 degrees celsius. Would the sheath be at risk of cracking? Or on hot days (+30 degrees celsius) would it melt or deform?

3. I have read about it scratching blades. How do black coating blades hold up against this? Are they more susceptible? Or is any blade finish subject to scratching?

Thanks in advance.

------------------
But what is strength without a double share
Of wisdom? vast, unwieldy, burdensome,
Proudly secure, yet liable to fall
By weakest subtleties; not made to rule
But to subserve where wisdom bears command. -Milton
 
Maskwa, Eric (Normark) is the man you should be asking those questions to, and just in case he doesn't check back on this thread (which I'm sure he will) email him or click on his web site (all in his post). BTW, I'm glad to meet someone else who likes to quote Milton
smile.gif


------------------
"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav'n"
John Milton
There are only two types of people; those who understand this, and those who think they do.
 
I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to have kydex rigs made for my fixed blades that currently have leather, and vice-versa. Not only will this give me hours of pleasure doing research and choosing options
smile.gif
but it will also make my collection much cooler
smile.gif
smile.gif
and give me twice as many carry options. For example, I want my Griffith Tracker to be housed in kydex when backpacking, but would like a quiet leather sheath for carry while hunting. But mostly I just want more cool stuff to add to my collection!
wink.gif
 
Hi Maskwa....

""I have been contemplating getting a Kydex or Concealex sheath for one of my blades. I am leaning toward Concealex because I can get one in olive drab and it would match my webbing.

Yes OD is Very cool.. I have a pic up on my site,,although it's kind of crappy... I like the looks of it for sure..
I have OD in stock...

Are you CF Mil ???


""1. Is it a great deal more durable than leather? ex. If I am running and fall would I be more at risk of my knife cutting though the leather sheath as opposed to puncturing the concealex.

Yes,, absolutely.... Concealex/Kydex is more durable than most leather....
It does have it's fault and bad points,, but over all,, as far as the tactical application,, Plastic is Fantastic!!
smile.gif


You will not cut through this stuff...


""2. How does it hold up in extreme temperatures? Where I live it can easily reach -40 degrees celsius. Would the sheath be at risk of cracking? Or on hot days (+30 degrees celsius) would it melt or deform?

That's to be determined yet,, how it works with cold... I'm going to run some tests with it,,as soon as it get cold enough..
I've frozen it,, and doesn't seem to effect it much... Deep freeze may be another thing..
I'm going to be doing some tests with dry ice soon...
If you run over it with a Deuce and a half,, no it probably won't survive in cold weather..

In cold weather it isn't bad from what I can gather...Sharp impacts may be the biggest problem during cold... Can easily be fixed with a lap or two with 100mph tape for the winter,,to protect it from sharp impacts.

Heat.. Well I wouldn't leave it on the dash of a car for long in the summer... A Hooch in S.E.Asia,, shouldn't be a problem. On your body in 100F+ shouldn't be a problem either unless it's in direct sunlight...

It certainly does have it's limits.. But if you are careful with it,,you shouldn't have any problems at all...

""3. I have read about it scratching blades. How do black coating blades hold up against this? Are they more susceptible? Or is any blade finish subject to scratching?

Yes it does.. That is a fact you may have to live with... As I've said before..If it's a field knife,,it's going to get scratched up anyway.. If it's a collectors piece,or something you aren't going to use,,then stay with leather for sure...

The whole idea about concealex/kydex,, is to rid the knife of snaps, buckles, bells and whistles rattles and plain old crappy sheaths.. Concealex will give you a straight forward sheath, with high safety factor as well as a multitude of carry options.... It isn't the answer to everyone's prayers,, but it's close...

If you have any more questions,, please feel free to e-mail me at any time...
ericn@mnsi.net
I'm happy to answer these questions for you.

Thanks...

Eric....

------------------
Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel
Custom made, High Quality
Concealex Sheaths and Tool Holsters
Canada's Only Custom Concealex Shop!



[This message has been edited by Normark (edited 01-19-2000).]
 
Johan
I have been checking out Normark offerings, they look good and it is an added bonus that he is also Canadian. As for Milton I guess we Canucks just know epic poetry at its finest
smile.gif
.

Normark
Thanks for answering my questions. If you can, please keep me updated on the cold weather tests. I did go through CF basic training a awhile back, when the course was over I went back to being a civvie and now I am thinking of going back.
My webbing is Canadian though, have to love that olive drab
smile.gif
, now my "fighting order" is used for camping and hunting.

One last thing, how did the Kalgard hold up (in terms of scratching) on the CRK's you worked with? because as beautiful as the Gfeller casemakers sheath for my Project II is, the belt loop is not big enough to completely fit my web belt (good thing it has all those lashing holes).


------------------
But what is strength without a double share
Of wisdom? vast, unwieldy, burdensome,
Proudly secure, yet liable to fall
By weakest subtleties; not made to rule
But to subserve where wisdom bears command. -Milton
 
To me, in the looks dept., there is no contest. Leather is much better looking. It has drawbacks though, like jungle rot,etc.
I get leather sheaths with my collecting knives for looks and kydex for my users. If I was still in the service where I needed stealth, I would line the kydex with felt or leather for quietness.
Certain knives have to have leather. Could you imagine an Ed Fowler Pronghorn in kydex? I dont think so.

------------------
lifter
Phil. 4:13

Dave
Wharton,NJ


 
Cold and kydex was discussed in the the couple of last kydex-leather threads. Rob Simonich or some other had broken kydex sheat because of cold. Searh!(one thread was in rewies/test forum another was here)

BTW leather allows as many carry options as kydex if sheatmaker uses imagination look e.g. for m-95s leather sheat.

I'm leather guy my self but if knife comes with kydex its makers decision (artists freedom ect) and I accept that.
 
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