Laminated blades?

Hi Vassili. Tests on ZDP-189 have indicate no brittleness, even at Rc65. Edge retention was also quite superior. We did not test a laminate, but a regular blade.

sal
 
How much will it cost and where to sugn in?
Will it be 65HRC (it's sounds like bulat)?
Is it just C-3% and Cr-20% and nothing else, may be special processing?
Does it has some special microstructure?
Thanks, Vassili.
 
Sal, how do the Charpy tests for ZDP-189 compare to more conventional steels?
I suppose it is a somewhat expensive steel, and takes a while to grind with all that Chromium and carbide content.
 
I've not been able to get Charpy information from Japanese foundries. I'm sure it is a communcation problem as to what I'm after, but to date, no luck.

I've described the Charpy tester we use here, but they say they have no such test. I'm sure they have a way of testing toughness, but it may take a while for me to chase it down.

All that I've heard about ZDP has been very good. That's why I would like to make a run of something to get some real "in the field" testing.

sal
 
It happend:
Fallkniven U2 - 420J+SGPS+420J - laminated blade with japanies analog of CPM S30V, cheap but quality plastic handle and backlock (sounds familiar).
Thanks, Vassili.
 
Carlos

I like your suggestion! I love the Native design, so a new color with a new steel would be a "must have"

David
 
I apologize for talking of Cold Steel in the Spyderco Forum, but it really fits this discussion. I have a couple of Norwegian kniveses with laminated blades, but the only ones that I have ever seen sold by an American maker were some of the Cold Steel products. I have a flder from them that I bought back in the late 1980s and my son has one that I gave him. They both have laminated blades. Does CS still make them or import them? I read somewhere back then that they threw out more than they kept due to delamination.
 
I doubt they make laminated blade old trditional way. It is probably same powder technology - but not homogenious powder substanse - 3 layers, same way Damasteel making damascus (much easy then this). But CM not douing it for some reason.
Brittle and hard to process S90V (or S60V) in thin layer between two 420 will deliver best cutting properties, will not be too britle and will not be too hard to process by manufacturer and too hard to sharpen (which is silly reason if you have Sharpmaker). And it should be cheaper then just S90V.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
i'd love to see a ZDP offering, if i have the cash around for it.

nozh is russian for knife, i believe-the guy who wrote a clockwork orange (the name escapes me) uses russian for many of the futuristic "slang" english words, and nozh is among them.
 
I've been a fan a San Mai blades for a long time. Advantages have been stated: toughness, corrosion resistance, strength. I've been playing with a mixture of bandsaw steel and ball bearing steel, 15N-20/52100e/15N-20 after lamination, thermocycling, and annealling I bent a piece one inch wide 4 inches long,.125 inches thick 30 180 degree bends, I have not approached that toughness with straight 52100. I can run edge hardness higher with San Mai of this material over that of homogenous 52100 and still have a tougher blade, that cuts better. If I run the hardness down to what I use in a homogenous blade then the San Mai is even tougher. Chosing the proper modern alloys I'd think that we should be able to make even higher performance blades today, especially incorporating the synergy of San Mai. Will you notice this advantage in a folder? I doubt it. San Mai Shines in big blades. Then again it depends on what synergy that you want to achieve.
Thanks, ...Ed
 
nozh2002 said:
Do not get me wrong - I never mention core steel for Helle as super - only secret, just because Helle never mention it composition. Just hi-carbon stainless razor steel (but they have carbon laminated blades too). Helle says that they work in close cooperation with Norwegian Steel institute - who knows what they really cooked there. INFI has even less carbon then 0.65%.

I bet Norwegians who in general consuming this knives definitely need rust resistance, because of salt water of Arctic ocean. Also they need good working knife - not some exclusive, nice looking etc.

Price for this knives comparable to Spyderco prices even here far from Norge, I do not think that in general it will cost much more.

It is also much easy to sharpen - because of soft sides - 2/3 of the blade.

to Franco G - Yes I am Russian (from California).

I am participating Russian forum too - where I hear a lot of excellent reports about Spyderco and also Helle. Practical hunters and fishermans like laminated blades because of sharpness, edge holding and price also.

But Helle focused on internal market and do not make folders. Only laminated folder exist - Hiro LB, but it is small gentlemen knife (and it is VG10+VG10+VG10 - and no explanation why he did it). Laminated Police or Military or Endura or Delica will be really cool knife.

Did Stamp really tested Helle? It seems he is focusing on "real" knives - 5" and more. I like to see his review on this one, so far my impression is based on non
scientific hunters and fishermans reviews and my own experience.

They test Helle Futura by slicing perches on Baikal lake - after 150-180 perches knife performs without resharpening (perch has hard skin - good test for edge).

Please, consider this thread as a request for closer look into this technology - I believe it is step forward - other way to make blade better not by steel composition
but by "construction".

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...
Helle does make folders I have one and they're expensive but if you want a folding scandi grind theirs are awesome.Topps and Condor and even Cold Steel make folding Scandia's. The Cold Steel Finn Wolf is a really good low budget option it's AUS8 but the blade geometry and ergos work.
 
A 20 year old thread but I still find Sal's comments from waya back then very instructive. :cool:
 
sgt1372 said:
A 20 year old thread but I still find Sal's comments from waya back then very instructive. :cool:
Click to expand...
Things have changed since then- I've seen more factory knives made with laminated steel. I've seen at least one with carbon steel core and stainless cladding. They look a bit weird to me with patina on the core and no patina on the cladding.
As an engineer I understand stress analysis, bending, fatigue and fracture, things like that. I have tried to think about the advantages of clad steel and the best I can come up with is it will make a blade more resistant to fracture. Depending on the steels involved it would not necessarily make a blade stronger in bending, the cladding steel is likely to have lower yield strength than the core. It would keep the core steel from fracturing because bending stress at the core would be lower. What it would do is if you have a steel with low notch sensitivity, somewhat related to toughness, it would be less likely for the entire blade to fracture in bending if it is clad with a lower strength steel. If you have sufficiently tough steel- the blade with full thickness hard steel would resist more load without permanent deformation than the clad blade with lower strength cladding. BUT if the hard steel is notch sensitive it could initiate a fracture at a bending load much lower than its yield strength. This is where a clad steel would have an advantage. Using currently common steels you could make a blade with maxamet core and S3V cladding that would be fairly tough but also have very good edgeholding. You would have to really want the increased performance to offset the cost of manufacturing the blade.
 
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