Lansky Deluxe Guided Angle Sharpening System

I

Indianbladenoob

Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Messages
598
Hello people of the knife,

Had a question I was hoping someone could help me out with. Posted as a reply to another post as well but received no comments.
I wanted to put in my order for the BK14 at knifecenter. I also wanted to order a guided angle sharpening system.
I'd like to order them together because the cost of international shipping is actually a couple $ more than cost of each.

I was looking at the Lansky Deluxe system with 5 hones. Extra coarse, Coarse, Medium, Fine and Ultra Fine. NOT the diamond version. This is the only guided angle sharpening system available on this website in my price range with this many hones and this is the only website as far as I know that ships regularly to India. Tomar's Kabars used to but don't anymore. (If there are any others please let me know)

http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/LSL...pening-system-

Is it sufficient for my knives? I don't own any super-steels yet. I have a SOG NW Ranger 2.0 in AUS-8, a Kershaw Scamp in 8Cr13MoV (Screwed up edge geometry with a bench stone) and now planning for the BK14 in 1095 CroVan. I also use reconditioned metal-saw blades and some cheapo Chinese slip joint folders for EDC. I have no idea what steel they are made of or the hardness. I strop on an old leather belt nailed to a plank with no stropping compounds. Seems to work.

I have read a few negative reviews on the Lansky product but mostly positive. Though I manage to get a decent user edge (push cuts newspaper along the grain but not against) with my current tools, my Smiths' 3-in-1 appears to dull my Scamp and Ranger. It does fine on my cheapo stuff. Any advice on why this happens would be appreciated. I realize I am probably doing something wrong. I also tend to get different edge angles on both sides when I sharpen freehand on my Carborundum Universal stones.

I am a rank novice at this and that's one of the reasons I don't want to spend a packet on high-end knives or systems until I have some level of proficiency with lesser systems and a fair bit more practice at freehand sharpening.

Another theoretical question I have is on the fixed angle on these systems. Wouldn't the angle vary a little with the size of knife?
I mean whatever angle the guide holds the rod at, a wider blade will have the angle decrease a little and a narrower blade will have it increase. One would have top move the clamp for really long blades to apparently. It would stay consistent on both sides anyway, I understand, but will this variance be significant?

Advice and recommendations please.

Thank you
Vasu
 
I have a Lansky 4 rod box that gets my knives sharper than I need. Granted, I like Carbon Steel, but for less than $20 you can get your foot in the door. Not good for reprofiling or anything fancy, but basic sharpening...yup. Just thought I'd throw that out there. I'm impressed with it. Sharpened a knife the other day that I dropped on my foot and cut to the tendon. Sharp enough.
 
Thank you Dan.
Yes but I also want to do some re-profiling. Both for edges that I have messed up and for newer knives.
Cheerz
 
Everyone has their favorite sharpening system and method. I have tried a lot of systems, and find the Lansky quite useful.

I actually like it best for reprofiling the edge of knives and setting the edge. After buying a Lansky, I tried different systems and didn't have much luck with any of them. Since the Lansky worked the best, I came back to it and tried to see what I was doing wrong.

I originally bought this system at the recommendation of two of the finest folder makers around today. One being Johnny Stout, ( http://www.stoutknives.com/ ) whom I met at a gun show 25 years ago. These guys knew their stuff. And you could shave arm hair easily with their knives. They told me at that time, that was the tool they used.

It took some practice, but the whole problem I was having was that I positioned the knife in the holder incorrectly. Also, this setup is one that you have to use to understand as different blade widths give very different bevels. It won't sharpen deep recurves; it has trouble with tiny blades like the pen blade on my peanut. It is hard to get the proper grip on an ultra thin blade, or one that is cut at a very acute angle.

Overall, it is a great part of the arsenal, and if you take the time to learn to use it you will find it has tremendous value in sharpening and reprofiling blades. I use it to reprofile damaged edges, set the edge angle I want on a new knife, and recut the edge bevels on a mismatched set of edge angles on knives. I haven't found as much success with other systems.

I don't use it for sharpening much after I set the bevels and establish the edges. I freehand after that and strop as needed. When I don't like the bevels anymore, off to the Lansky they go for a tuneup. It literally takes just minutes to do.

BTW, the Deluxe system is the way to go. With the at extra coarse stone you can remove a lot of material very quickly. Working through the stone grits refine the edge nicely as you go. And with that yellow stone you can almost mirror polish your harder blades. Makes stropping (if you do that sort of thing) a real snap after using it.

As far as your longer blades go, the longer the blade (past say six inches), the more trouble this system has. But it isn't a deal killer. A small bladed knife like the BK14 won't be a problem and I think this is where the Lansky system shines. For me, when I use this system I try to center the cutting edge of the blade in the holder as closely as possible, and always place it in that same place when I reprofile/sharpen.

I like mine, and have been using the same set for about 15+ years now. Still works great. If you get this setup you should do yourself the huge favor of getting the metal pedestal or their clamp along with the setup. One of the reasons folks don't like this system is that it is hard to maneuver the knife, clamp, and move the rods when you have to hold all of it at the same time. Putting the clamp on a stationary base makes it easy.

Robert
 
I can get dull knives sharp with my lansky 4piece.
I second the fact that some small blades are unsuitable.
And my advice is to persevere.
 
Thank you Robert & Meako,
From what you say it appears that it would help keep records on blade angle and position of my knives as well.
So this and my home-made belt strop would be enough to keep a working edge on my knives?
Understand I am not looking to be Ban Tang or "make the air bleed". :)
Cheerz
Vasu
 
Indianbladenoob said:
Thank you Robert & Meako,
From what you say it appears that it would help keep records on blade angle and position of my knives as well.
So this and my home-made belt strop would be enough to keep a working edge on my knives?
Understand I am not looking to be Ban Tang or "make the air bleed". :)
Cheerz
Vasu
Click to expand...

I'm with you on the sharpening. The only blade I routinely strop is the one I cut my cigars with before smoking. That one needs to be about as sharp as I can get it.

I put a bit of green compound on a strip of leather, and it works fine for me between resets on the Lansky.

And good catch on your part. I have reprofiled and sharpened enough of my knives over the years that I know which blades have which angle. But when I was experimenting with the setup, I kept a record of which angle was on the blade. This also helped me find the best angle to use for different steels. If the edge was too fragile, I made the edge less flat. If it wouldn't slice well, I flattened it out. That kind of adjustment and accurate flexibility really helped me appreciate the difference in steels and how they perform, too.

I am not sure why, but it took some time for me to realize that the wider the blade is, the more shallow/flatter the bevel will be since it stretches out the space between the clamp and the edge of the knife.

Look around in the site, there is some good instruction on using the Lansky if you search for it here.

Robert
 
I've been using a Lansky Arkansas 3 stone system for 2 weeks and am very happy with the system and results.
The learning curve is not long or hard but the patience curve is...it takes time and effort to restore an abused knife to working sharp or better...depends on the blade steel as well.
I also use a home made leather strop with green compound on one side and nothing on the other side to polish the edge.
I've recently been able to get a hair popping edge on my BM 585 mini-barrage, but this knife uses a good quality steel. I can not get as crisp an edge on my Victorinox Tinker blade but it does shave copy paper cleanly.
I like the Lansky's ability to keep a consistent angle on the knife edge.

It is all about effort and patience in my opinion.

My first sharpening stone was the concrete sidewalk in front of my house when I was just a kid with my first pocket knife I found in the park.
 
Thank you.
All the pictures and videos of this and other guided systems in my price range showed small to tiny knives. Made me wonder if people with big knives use this and that made me realize the edge would be further away with the rod pivoting at the guide hole. So the angle would be correct (as written on the clamp) for only a particular distance from the clamp edge. Would it help to mount all knives at a constant distance from the clamp edge? A little trial and error and measuring would determine at what distance from the clamp the edge should be to create the exact angles mentioned on the clamp. That would limit the width of the knife to distance from tightening screw to edge of clamp + the determined constant.

So, steel characteristics would influence the angle too? In my readings I realized the characteristics of hardness and toughness usually vary inversely in relation to each other and the the best steels and makers achieve a tenuous balance between these 2 characteristics and attempt to maximize both.

Is there a chart or something that would outline the best angles for various steels by various manufacturers and relate it to the required utility of the knife? I think this would be an awesome resource for novices like me and others.
midnight flyer said:
I'm with you on the sharpening. The only blade I routinely strop is the one I cut my cigars with before smoking. That one needs to be about as sharp as I can get it.

I put a bit of green compound on a strip of leather, and it works fine for me between resets on the Lansky.

And good catch on your part. I have reprofiled and sharpened enough of my knives over the years that I know which blades have which angle. But when I was experimenting with the setup, I kept a record of which angle was on the blade. This also helped me find the best angle to use for different steels. If the edge was too fragile, I made the edge less flat. If it wouldn't slice well, I flattened it out. That kind of adjustment and accurate flexibility really helped me appreciate the difference in steels and how they perform, too.

I am not sure why, but it took some time for me to realize that the wider the blade is, the more shallow/flatter the bevel will be since it stretches out the space between the clamp and the edge of the knife.

Look around in the site, there is some good instruction on using the Lansky if you search for it here.

Robert
Click to expand...
 
Indianbladenoob said:
Thank you.
All the pictures and videos of this and other guided systems in my price range showed small to tiny knives. Made me wonder if people with big knives use this and that made me realize the edge would be further away with the rod pivoting at the guide hole. So the angle would be correct (as written on the clamp) for only a particular distance from the clamp edge.
Click to expand...

That is correct. I don't know what distance that actually is, but again, once you sharpen enough you will be able to adjust by eye. I look at those angles as "guidelines" and not more. I don't care if I am at 21.25 degrees instead of 22. I look at the slots now and not at the degree marked, and look to get a consistent angle on the blade.


Indianbladenoob said:
Would it help to mount all knives at a constant distance from the clamp edge? A little trial and error and measuring would determine at what distance from the clamp the edge should be to create the exact angles mentioned on the clamp. That would limit the width of the knife to distance from tightening screw to edge of clamp + the determined constant.
Click to expand...

The Lansky has a notch into the jaws to set the spine of the knife in when you are positioning the blade. To get maximum repeatability and to ease your resharpening, use that notch. Mind when you clamp onto the blade that you get the blade parallel to the clamp jaws or you will have different angles on each side. One of the downfalls for folks that haven't worked out the kinks on this system is that if you have a flat spine to clamp to, you should keep the jaws open just a tiny bit more than the blade and clamp. However, if you have blade that had a hollow grind or a smaller blade that is full flat ground, you can arch the back of the clamp to mimic the holding angle, and the clamp will actually be open more at the back than the front edge, allowing the aluminum jaws to grip the blade at the angle of its grind.

Indianbladenoob said:
So, steel characteristics would influence the angle too? In my readings I realized the characteristics of hardness and toughness usually vary inversely in relation to each other and the the best steels and makers achieve a tenuous balance between these 2 characteristics and attempt to maximize both.
Click to expand...

True again. My personal experience is that different steels perform better for me with different edge. Your mileage will vary! There are so many variables in steels, heat treatments, blade shapes, angles, etc., that you need to find what works best for the knife you are sharpening. You can make some generalizations to get started, but your use will also determine the optimum edge angle for your personal needs.

Some like their edges as sharp as humanly possible. My personal preferences on the steels I have depend on two things: what I will use the knife for in its daily task, and which steel it is. Personally, I see no point of putting an atom splitting edge on a knife that will injure your cornea from looking at it if I am going to take it to my construction job. Cutting wet, dirty rope and strapping, cardboard that has grit and debris ground into it, hitting a hidden staple or nail will destroy a mirror fine edge on the first cut. It will tear up a good edge no matter what, but I can get a less fine edge back to working sharp for me (stopping at 600 gr) in just a few swipes as opposed to sitting down and trying to repair the mirror finish and edge on a knife. For gritty, nasty work about 600 gr fits my needs perfectly.

My personal experience has been that a finer edge damages more easily. Some will argue this, but this has been my experience. They certainly have theirs. A (literally) razor thin edge doesn't hold up to distortion, slight impact, or tolerate unintended circumstances as well as a less acutely sharpened blade. I have chipped and kinked many a laser sharp edge unintentionally while working, and kicked myself every time. This by the way, is why I carry two knives. My folding beater work knives are (3"+ blades) are sharpened at 25 - 30 degrees per side on the Lansky.

My cutting/slicing only blades that are on my smaller folders in my pocket are sharpened at 20 degrees on the Lansky, and the smaller secondary blades are usually a little more like 15 degrees, which I freehand.

Indianbladenoob said:
Is there a chart or something that would outline the best angles for various steels by various manufacturers and relate it to the required utility of the knife? I think this would be an awesome resource for novices like me and others.
Click to expand...

Sorry, not to my knowledge. Too many variables to count, and too many opinions to register.

Thought you might enjoy this thread about "chasing the burr" when sharpening. It has a lot of sharpening information, and some discussion on using the Lansky (I chimed in around #36 and later on, too) that you will find interesting.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/697747-The-burr

Good luck!

Robert
 
Alright then, thanks a ton Robert. I think I have enough theoretical input and need to get my hands on the system now.
Ordered the system along with the BK14 and the ZYtel Scale set. I hit check-out, paid for it and then bounced on my chair like a child told that he is going to Disneyland.
:)
 
I started sharpening with the lansky 5 stone kit. It's ok but there's better out there. the slots go form 17o(which you can't use) to 20,25,30. Last two are too obtuse so 20o is the only one you can use. Which i still find too obtuse. Also long blades or ones with decent belly are a pain as you have to constantly move the spine in the clamp to keep angle the same. Even the black(extra course) stone removes metal very slowly. Anything besides an ultra thin carbon blade takes so much time to sharpen on it i give up before being done so the blades never seem to get very sharp. And even on o small carbon thin knife they still don'y get as sharp as with some other systems. A lot of people like them so don't take my experience as gospel but I just don't like it. Your experience may differ
 
RE: 'Usability' of the 17-degree setting on the Lansky.

It can be made more usable very easily.

The thumbscrew's oversized head can sometimes stand a bit too 'tall' and obstruct the hone's movement at the low setting. I replaced the thumbscrews on my Lansky clamps (I have an older one, and a more recent version) with some lower-profile standard, slotted screws. The size & thread pitch are standard (10-24), and a lot can be done with the 1/2" and 3/4" lengths in particular. This makes the clamp much more usable at the 17-degree setting. I use this setting for virtually all blade widths of ~5/8" or more, maybe slightly narrower if utilizing the notch in the ends of the clamp's jaws. These screws also fit the Gatco clamp as well (same size).

BTW, the screws I use are made of brass. They're softer than the steel screws, which helps minimize digging into the softer aluminum of the clamp when tightening the screws down.
 
I've tried that as well and yes it does remove the head of the screw from being in the way but at least in my experience the stone still rides on the end of the clamp
 
Vicv said:
I've tried that as well and yes it does remove the head of the screw from being in the way but at least in my experience the stone still rides on the end of the clamp
Click to expand...

I have some scrub marks on my older Lansky clamp (it's maybe 15-20 years old), from the hones rubbing on it with smaller blades. The upside is, the little bit of material that was blocking the hone got rubbed off fast, so it's not in the way anymore. Doesn't negatively affect the functionality of the clamp and, once out of the way, it's out of the way for good.

I recently picked up the second kit, with a newer version of the clamp. The notch in the end of the jaws is more squarely machined now, and I've used that to hold smaller blades without any of the rubbing that I had with the older clamp (the notch in that one didn't hold as well, so I had to set the blade deeper into the clamp).

For example's sake:
At the moment, I'm setting up the main spear blade of a Victorinox SAK in this clamp (the newer one), using the notch in the end of the jaws, and setting the hone at the 17 setting. The edge of the blade is 11/32" beyond the end of the clamp, with the remaining 3/32" of the blade's spine set into the notch of the clamp. The guide rod is set to be flush with the face of the hone (tighten the guide rod's set screw with both the rod and hone setting flush to a flat surface). When set this way, I have full clearance between hone and clamp. It's close, about 1/32" or a little more, but no contact between the two.

Doing the same with the SAK's pen blade now, the edge of the blade extends 1/4" out from the clamp, with the blade's spine set the same distance into the clamp (3/32", the full depth of the notch). Still using the 17 setting, with maybe the thickness of a piece of paper of clearance. Still very, very close, but with no collision between the hone and the clamp. In this example, this is where a shorter screw at the front of the clamp helps, so the end of the screw doesn't block the hone either.
 
There are definitely tricks to the system like any other and I just now changed my opinel no 6 to the 17 mark. It worked. Actually this post helped me as I never noticed the notch. So thanks for the info. Judging the grind line now it's probably around 12o or so. Cuts much better. I still don't like the system though. Just my experience. I'm still searching for the one that is for me
 
Vicv said:
There are definitely tricks to the system like any other and I just now changed my opinel no 6 to the 17 mark. It worked. Actually this post helped me as I never noticed the notch. So thanks for the info. Judging the grind line now it's probably around 12o or so. Cuts much better. I still don't like the system though. Just my experience. I'm still searching for the one that is for me
Click to expand...

Good deal. :thumbup:

All the 'systems' have their quirks, both good and not-so-good. Among the guided setups, the Lansky is the one that I keep coming back to, for smaller blades. I have the Gatco and the DMT Aligner/Magna-Guide too, but they don't hold the small blades as reliably as the Lansky's clamp. The Gatco has larger hones and a longer reach, which works better for larger & longer blades like kitchen knives, and the Dia-Fold hones used with my Magna-Guide are what's 'best' about that setup. The hones work much faster. DMT does diamonds very well. :)
 
If only I could free sharpen but I don't have the patience and the water stones I've used cut so slowly! I think an edge pro is next
 
I have the lansky deluxe supplemented with diamond hones, I like it a lot but the clamp just can not reliably hold some blades. I have a sharpmaker as well and very much prefer this system, I wanted to ease into free hand sharpening but I must say the sharpmaker doesn't exactly make me want to get anything else.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
I have some scrub marks on my older Lansky clamp (it's maybe 15-20 years old), from the hones rubbing on it with smaller blades. The upside is, the little bit of material that was blocking the hone got rubbed off fast, so it's not in the way anymore. Doesn't negatively affect the functionality of the clamp and, once out of the way, it's out of the way for good.
Click to expand...

Exactly my experience. In fact, I ground it off without really noticing. That has never been a block to a great edge.

Obsessed with Edges said:
I recently picked up the second kit, with a newer version of the clamp. The notch in the end of the jaws is more squarely machined now, and I've used that to hold smaller blades without any of the rubbing that I had with the older clamp (the notch in that one didn't hold as well, so I had to set the blade deeper into the clamp).
Click to expand...

I did not know that. Thanks for the update info. My set is about the same vintage as yours, and I have finally gotten it to the point where I believe I need to replace it. The guide wires slide around in two of the hones, the clamp doesn't hold that well, and a couple of the hones aren't 100% anymore. This is after a million hours of use, so it is time to replace the kit. I have been putting it off, but with that update I will spring for the purchase Monday.

BTW, Indianbladenoob, read the instructions on using this system and follow them. Regardless of what you will hear from people that don't own the Lansky system, even their carborundum and ceramic stones will sharpen hard, high performance steels. I was pretty busy doing it, but I actually reprofiled and sharpened my S110V Kershaw Shallot with no problems. Keep the stones oiled so that the swarf doesn't build up, and they will cut the steel well. Diamonds are faster, but if you are on a budget and especially if you are using mid range stainless or any carbon steels the carborundum stones will do fine for you. Mine sure have.

Thanks again, OWE for that update. Lansky doesn't get talked about much around here so I had no idea anything had changed with the set.

Robert
 
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