I recently posted a thread about wanting the type of angle guide that works with benchstones. Not too popular I guess, one response. In the past I have used the systems where you clamp the blade to the angle guide and use the rods and little stones. Please correct me if I'm wrong but here is my problem with them. Yes, I get a consistant angle on both sides of the blade, but that is where the consistancy stops. Since blades come in all shapes and sizes, how do you keep the same degree angle? The closer the stone comes to the point where I have clamped the blade, the more obtuse the angle becomes. The farther away from the clamp, the more acute the angle becomes. Is this true or can I correct this somehow?
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Lansky type systems
- Thread starter gary74
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- Mar 14, 2007
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It's true that is the problem, there is really no way to correct that with a guided system unless it can know the distance between the edge and the point of fulcrum. You get a fine edge, and unless you have a very very curved blade you won't notice the difference, you would need to be very good free handing it in order to make up for the strange angles.
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- Jun 10, 2007
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Actually, they are quite prevalent around here. They just don't measure up in popularity to the sharpmaker, but the sharpmaker doesn't measure up in envy potential to the edgepro which is the ultimate in guided systems. From what I gather around here several professionals use the edgepro in their business.
Varying angles are inherent with a guide system, but that is the trade off for perfect bevels. You can't change physics, but you can even the efects. For instance my knife is about four inches long and it has a pretty even taper from heel to tip. I set my bevel with my clamp right in the middle of my knife and that produced a 33 degree angle at the heel and a 35 degree angle at the center, and about a 37 degree angle at the tip. Had I known this when I set it, I would have cheated back to the heel till my heel and tip matched. This still wouldn't have been perfect, but much closer to even. The center still would have been a higher angle. These effects are greater with more taper, and also greater with a longer knife. These two things come into play to change the distance from the guide point or pivot point.
One thing that minimizes this effect is how long the guide point or pivot point is from the point of the clamp. I haven't seen the edgepro in person, but I am betting that the clamp point is much farther away from the guides.
Also, in theory, If I had more clamping room, I could turn my clamp to face the direction of my taper and the taper wouldn't come into play, however my aligner only grabs about 1/8" of knife material. This might also be different in the edgepro.
Don't sweat the lack of response on the lansky systems. More around here than will admit got started with one of these but have moved on to something else. They aren't bad tools, and can be used to put the keenest of edges if you use them properly. The problem is that you don't gain any skill at freehanding with these systems.
By the way, dmt's aligner works perfectly on a bench stone. All you have to do is put some tape on the outside of the guide to keep it from wearing down. I rebeveled my zdp blade from about 35degrees down to 27 degrees with my aligner and an 8 inch xx coarse dmt stone. The bevel line is perfect, but once again I have a varying bevel. 25 degrees at the heel 27 at the center and about 29 at the tip. Exactly 8 degrees lower than my primary bevel at these points.
Varying angles are inherent with a guide system, but that is the trade off for perfect bevels. You can't change physics, but you can even the efects. For instance my knife is about four inches long and it has a pretty even taper from heel to tip. I set my bevel with my clamp right in the middle of my knife and that produced a 33 degree angle at the heel and a 35 degree angle at the center, and about a 37 degree angle at the tip. Had I known this when I set it, I would have cheated back to the heel till my heel and tip matched. This still wouldn't have been perfect, but much closer to even. The center still would have been a higher angle. These effects are greater with more taper, and also greater with a longer knife. These two things come into play to change the distance from the guide point or pivot point.
One thing that minimizes this effect is how long the guide point or pivot point is from the point of the clamp. I haven't seen the edgepro in person, but I am betting that the clamp point is much farther away from the guides.
Also, in theory, If I had more clamping room, I could turn my clamp to face the direction of my taper and the taper wouldn't come into play, however my aligner only grabs about 1/8" of knife material. This might also be different in the edgepro.
Don't sweat the lack of response on the lansky systems. More around here than will admit got started with one of these but have moved on to something else. They aren't bad tools, and can be used to put the keenest of edges if you use them properly. The problem is that you don't gain any skill at freehanding with these systems.
By the way, dmt's aligner works perfectly on a bench stone. All you have to do is put some tape on the outside of the guide to keep it from wearing down. I rebeveled my zdp blade from about 35degrees down to 27 degrees with my aligner and an 8 inch xx coarse dmt stone. The bevel line is perfect, but once again I have a varying bevel. 25 degrees at the heel 27 at the center and about 29 at the tip. Exactly 8 degrees lower than my primary bevel at these points.
+1 on this. :thumbup:
Also, IMO the DMT Aligner is the best of the "Lansky Type" systems, if you're going to be using any of them.
I'm going to go against the flow here and say this -isn't- a problem. As long as the angles are ballpark-adequate for the job and material and the bevels meet, you'll be miles and miles ahead of most factory edges, and if your bevels vary a little, it's probably still quite a bit less than they would if you were freehanding, and not enough to noticeably affect actual edge performance.
Let the flaming begin.
Let the flaming begin.
armilite
BOUNCED EMAIL: I need to update my email address in my profile!
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- Feb 4, 2007
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Hi There,
In my Honest opinion, The Lansky System Stinks! I've had two of them and ruined several good blades. However as someone else posted there are some members that have been able to get it to work.
In my overview however I think the Aliener isn't a bad system but I have never used one So this is just my opinion If the blade your sharpening is rather long you'll have alot of work.
Many here also talk about the Spyderco Sharp maker but I have also seen posts from members that were having trouble getting it to work. There is a learning curve with some of these machines however. Some swear by the Sharp maker and I bet there are a few that swear at it also.
I myself finally knuckled under and bought an Edgepro. It also has a learning curve so don't expect to buy one and get your blade razor sharp first time you use it. It takes a while to get used to things and I still am not the best at it
but I can tell you it does work and Ben Dale the owner of the company is only a phone call away. Great customer service. It is rather pricey but worth it. I had to save for a couple of month to get it. Check out their web page it will provide some info!
There is another system being sold Thar has caught my attention, Steve Botorff is pushing it. The author of Sharpening made easy. This man seems to know what he's talking about. It's called the Razor Sharp system which consists of two paper wheels load with grit that mount to a bench grinder and is supposed to work rather fast and does a good job. I'm going to buy one myself. Not to expensive either. 35.00 bucks for the grinder at Harbor Freight and 40.00 bucks for the wheels
Sorry for such a long post but I to have been searching for the best edge I can get for a long time and with the Edgepro I found it.
armilite Ps. Just keep at it
In my Honest opinion, The Lansky System Stinks! I've had two of them and ruined several good blades. However as someone else posted there are some members that have been able to get it to work.
In my overview however I think the Aliener isn't a bad system but I have never used one So this is just my opinion If the blade your sharpening is rather long you'll have alot of work.
Many here also talk about the Spyderco Sharp maker but I have also seen posts from members that were having trouble getting it to work. There is a learning curve with some of these machines however. Some swear by the Sharp maker and I bet there are a few that swear at it also.
I myself finally knuckled under and bought an Edgepro. It also has a learning curve so don't expect to buy one and get your blade razor sharp first time you use it. It takes a while to get used to things and I still am not the best at it
but I can tell you it does work and Ben Dale the owner of the company is only a phone call away. Great customer service. It is rather pricey but worth it. I had to save for a couple of month to get it. Check out their web page it will provide some info!
There is another system being sold Thar has caught my attention, Steve Botorff is pushing it. The author of Sharpening made easy. This man seems to know what he's talking about. It's called the Razor Sharp system which consists of two paper wheels load with grit that mount to a bench grinder and is supposed to work rather fast and does a good job. I'm going to buy one myself. Not to expensive either. 35.00 bucks for the grinder at Harbor Freight and 40.00 bucks for the wheels
Sorry for such a long post but I to have been searching for the best edge I can get for a long time and with the Edgepro I found it.
armilite Ps. Just keep at it
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2007
- Messages
- 398
Gary74: I'm not sure what your experience level is with a guided sharpener, but as armilite said there are many ways you can mess up using the guided system. The first way is to inconsistently place the clamp each time you use it. As you have already figured out the angle varies depending on proximaty to the guide holes. If you place the clamp in different spots, you can't maintain the angles you have already established. You will go higher in some spots which you won't notice, but you will go lower in others which will require a lot of work to reach the edge. I scratch a permanent hash mark on the spine of my knife on either side of my clamp to center my clamp between and I always clamp the bolt on the same side of the knife each time, say on the logo side perhaps. You can also achieve inconsistent angles by tightening the clamp bolt differently each time you use it. I can't recommend this to you as I would sure hate to be responsible for you breaking your aligner, however I have always tightened my aligner bolt as tight as it will go to ensure that I will always have the same angle each time I use it. Third thing is the wobble allowed by the guide hole. I don't have scientific proof that this little bit of wobble will amount to anything, however many of my problems disappeared when I learned to hold the rod down and against the same edge of the guide hole with my index finger on the hand that I am grasping the clamp with. I try to hold it toward the center edge, buy my guides are flipped over and going the opposite direction and it is easier to hold the rod to the center with my index finger.