Large Camp Folder

S

steelscout30

Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
1,506
I suppose I'm one of the new ultralight breed of outdoorsman and backcountry trekkers who prefer the bare minimum in weight to make the outdoor experience more enjoyable. As such, I've always carried a Cold Steel X2 Voyager when I've wanted something slightly bigger than my Military or Manix, but didn't want the weight of a fixed blade (a 7-or-so odd ounce folder versus a pound or more for a full tang blade and sheath). I'm tired of supporting the politically unsound ethics of Mr. Thompson and worrying about the knife's edge chipping or dulling on me when I don't need it to. The pocket clip is cheap and I'm worried one of these times it will break off and the knife will be lost from my pack, waistband, or pocket...I still have to back it up with the Military which equals the weight of a fixed blade. I'm not happy with this set-up!

Mr. Glesser and the folks at Spyderco, I would like to see a slightly larger knife, something with a blade in the 5 to 6 inch range. The blade in H1 would be a big bonus, as, in my experience with my Pacific Salt, that steel is amazing not only in corrosion resistance but in ease of resharpening and edge holding ability as well. Make the stock thick enough to handle moderately heavy camping tasks---about as thick or slightly thicker than the Chinook---and use the larger 14mm SpyderHole to promote easy opening; this could also be another application for the removable wave.

To keep weight down, I'd like to see a handle somewhat like the Military---a tough liner lock with grippy G10 scales, possibly orange in color, that don't slip but leave weight where it should be, though drilled and ready for left/right handed tip up or down carry depending on how people like to carry them.

So, in summary, picture this around the camp: a large, lightweight, flat ground folding knife with a six inch blade; essentially, the performance of a fixed blade in the size dimensions of a folder. This would way surpass any other offering in the industry and, I'm sure, would have a good following. This would be a good knife to have in a glovebox, hunting vest, lifejacket, bail-out bag, or survival kit.

Thanks for your consideration, or at least hearing what I would like in a knife.

God bless you, America, and our men and women overseas.

KATN,

Wade
619G6
 
I would certainly like to see what the creative folks in Golden have to offer as competition. I'm brand loyal and, between similar offerings, would buy from Spyderco rather than Benchmade. The experience I've had with Mr. Glesser and his company and the fact that he talks so frequently with his customers and gets opinions from actual users of his knives is great. While I do not have a Rukus, I do have a Skirmish and it is also a great knife. I would love to see Spyderco give some competition for the cutting crown against those larger knives. With all the talk about 4.5"+ blades from Benchmade, as well as Cold Steel and the old Camillus Darrel Ralph and Gibbs-Maxx offerings, there does seem to be a market. I'm really enthusiastic about this idea!

Take on the the Rukus for the title!

KATN,

Wade
 
I supose you want such a big knife for wood cutting for fire and/or shelter? Have you looked at a small axe? like the gerber pack axe. just over a pound at 17.5 oz, has a length of 8.875'. I would bet this is one of your best chopping power to weight ratios. hopfuly this helps a little.
 
Hi SteelScout,

Thanx for the kind words. The idea is interesting. We've discussed larger folders a few times in the past.

H1 really can't be made into a blade thicker than 3mm (.125). About the thickness of the Pacific Salt. We have two fixed blades coming out in H1 with a 7" blade and one about 4". Both have 3mm thick blades.

I probably wouldn't go much over 5" for a folder. A 6" blade on a folder needs a 6.5" - 7" long handle which is already longer than most fixed blade handles.

We have a design for a 5" folder with a compression lock, but it's still in R&D. We called it the "Bison" when we did some marketing research at shows.

I don't think a folder will perform chopping tasks as well as a fixed blade.

Just for the sake of discussion;

handle material?

lock type preferred?

Blade style?

Any other "wishes" on this model?

sal
 
Hi Sal, you've probably answered this question before.....but what's the reason for the 3mm limitation on H-1 blades? IIRC, i also remember reading that H-1 can't be flat ground (only hollow).....:confused:
 
Hi Jaislandboy.

It has to do with the hardness achieved in rolling. The material is finicky.

sal
 
thanx for the reply Sal.... I used my yellow SE Salt to deanimate some 1 inch thick overgrown weeds in the yard today..... I really love this "exotic" steel... :)
Brian
 
Sal, as to the other "wishes" for this project ( or for that matter any spydie ) add a Cobra hood a'la the ATR

A
 
Mr. Glesser: It was at the Spirit Of Steel knife show in Dallas Texas back in 04 at the Spyderco booth. You and your son Eric showed me a prototype of a rather large folder and I believe that Eric told me it was called the "Bison". Now I was immediately impressed with that knife but didn't hear much about it after that show. There were a couple of people on the Spyderco.com Forum that mentioned it a time or 2 but other than that I had not heard as to whether or not the Spyderco Bison was ever going to be in the main line up.

I was really impressed with the Bison because of it's big and wide blade which to me would have made the perfect camp knife just like this brother who started this thread is calling for.

3 Questions: What has happened to the Bison? Why didn't it ever get released? Or is it one that couldn't be made that would profit the company?
 
I love the idea of a big camp folder. Here’s my wish list.
Blade: As long as possible, 5.5” would be nice. 5” is more likely to happen. I’d like to see a traditional drop point blade, or for something different a super large Captain would be neat.
Handle: G-10 with nested steel liners. The handle should be well rounded with no dips or protrusions to cause hot spots during hard work. The Chinook is a good place to start.
Lock: The Compression lock is a good default. It has been well proven. However, on a knife this size there would be plenty of room for a Ball Bearing lock, which might be more durable in the long run.
 
Wishes: No bladeplay! I love my manix, and it perform great at small- medium camp tasks, but everytime I wiggle the blade it makes me cringe.
 
james_bond said:
I supose you want such a big knife for wood cutting for fire and/or shelter? Have you looked at a small axe? like the gerber pack axe. just over a pound at 17.5 oz, has a length of 8.875'. I would bet this is one of your best chopping power to weight ratios. hopfuly this helps a little.
Click to expand...

I find the idea of a small axe very interesting. I own a few axes and some of them are Gransfors Bruks. I believe they are some of the best axes one can buy! Exceptional performance based on old world craftsmaship!

Sal Glesser said:
I don't think a folder will perform chopping tasks as well as a fixed blade.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with it. Bear on mind that the longer the blade the greater the torque generated at the pivot area, thus the greater the stress applied to it. Plus, a folder has moving parts where a fixed blade doesn't and it (i.e. a folder) is therefore more complex of a knife. The law "Keep It Super Simple" applies mostly in situations where if you break your tool (in this case your knife) this might mean that your life will be at stake. In other words you want something that is simple and solid.
 
Mr. Glesser,

Thanks for replying, I wish that the heads of other cutlery brands and even custom makers were as responsive and communicative with their customers as you are.

If the CPM D2 is successful, or if there are plans or it is a possiblity to use the CPM M4 as was suggested in several other forums (like the Massad Ayoob post), that would be very cool, especially coated to prevent corrosion due to the fact that H1 can't be thick.

The handle would be long, but I've found that with my Cold Steel X2 it offers reach and more power on the downward swing because of the extension; a long handle with the approximate thin-ness of a Police or Military wouldn't be that much of a problem to carry. I've carried my X2 in an appendix setup for some time now. I really like the G10 handles that go into most of the higher-quality models, especially on my Lil' Temperance. The ergonomics of that and the Dodo are unsurpassed.

The compression lock is very strong and not too heavy. Also, it is easy to clean. The encased ball lock is an intriguing (and, I hear, strong---my P'kal hasn't arrived yet...still waiting :D) design and that might be cool too.

With the right steel and a strong lock, a folder could perhaps chop as well as some of the fixed blades on the market---certainly not something large like a Busse, Ranger, TOPS, or any other huge knife, but it would give medium sized knives such as the BM Fixed Griptilian and the Ritter model a decent run for their money, especially in a tough carbon or tool steel. This knife would be more for all-out cutting than full-service chopping. I don't think anyone expects a folder, no matter how large, to be an axe. If coated, maintenance wouldn't be so much of a hassle in a carbon or tool steel, reducing the drawbacks but having the good properties.

I like Archimedes's recommendation of the addition of a Cobra Hood; I hadn't thought about that and I really like that.

Essentially, a large CPM D2, M4, or S60V (440V?---I really like that on my older Military, the original Chinook, and Lil' Temperance) with a G10 handle and a ball lock or compression lock would certainly be good competition for the Rukus and draw a good many buyers.

Thanks for taking the time to listen to me and my posts.

God bless you, America, and our men and women overseas.

KATN,

Wade
 
I am a ultralight hiker as well. i have loved my spyderco temperance and haven't found much need for anything else.
 
The Bison is sitting in the prototype case. I think it's 5" or 5.5". We used a compression lock on it. We were kinda holding out for the stop-lock, but we seem to have so many projects going at any given time that overall progress seems slow, but many more models can be created.

We've kinda backed off on the Cobra-hood. We keep it on the Assist, which has been accepted by Fire & Rescue, but it was not well received by the general market.

We'd really have to focus on geometry to be able to "Shear" things like branches with little resistance.

Keeping a large folding knife ultra-light and still strong will also be a challenge.

I like carrying a Temperance outside as well. Light, strong and comfortable to use. We tooled up a new handle for a fixed blade that is similar to the Temperance, but thinner. The blade is a sheepfoot, but I think I'll do a run with a Temperance blade shape.

Hi Scout. Thanx.

The entire "business chain" from; raw materials, invention, design, manufacturing, marketing, selling, distributing, shipping, warrantees, insurance, credit, etc. ALL EXISTS to service the ELU (End Line User). Remove the ELU from the equation and the entire business chain falls like a house of cards. We all work for you!

sal
 
I wonder why the Cobra Hood wasn't well-received by the wide-spread market? It seemed to be a sensible addition to the knife in order to make opening easier, especially in high-stress situations or if one wasn't entirely used to the SpyderHole.

The challenge of keeping a folder light but strong would be an engineering challenge, but a case in point of Spyderco being successful in such an endeavor, in my opinion, is the Military.

Also, the Temperance is my fixed blade of choice for raining weekends or hunting trips when the A2 or D2 blades of my Bark Rivers or Doziers would rust. That is a great camp knife and I'm impressed with both the plain and serrated edge versions---I bought both before my trip to the Philmont Scout Ranch at the urging of the other users of the Spyderco forums. :thumbup:

A Temperance with, say, G10 or micarta handles and a tool steel blade (has anybody noticed I really like D2? :D) would be an awesome sprint run too. Maybe I'll start another post about that one...

God bless you, America, and our men and women overseas.

KATN,

Wade
 
I liked the cobra hood, too. I think that maybe it wasn't widely accepted because it effectively shortens the blade length for slicing. You can't cut as far back on the blade with a cobra-hooded knife as you can with a sans-hood knife. A lot of folks like using the very back of the blade- the part closest to the handle. The back of the blade gives the best control for slicing through thick materials, there's less leverage back there. The hood hinders this, because it makes the blade wider/ thicker to the rear. But the hood does add a lot in terms of ease of opening and gripping surface. It's a trade-off, that people maybe weren't interested in making.
 
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