Review Last ditch knife for a CO

[g dub]

So last year one of the Conservation Officers in the Kootenay Area of British Columbia was called out to deal with a cougar had broken into some homes, the CO was attacked by the cougar that turned out to be very emaciated and sick. He did not have his sidearm on him at the time and ended up dispatching the cat with a folding knife. With this in mind a friend who is also a Conservation Officer for the province of British Columbia wanted me to make him a fixed blade knife for when he is out chasing after dangerous wildlife. In chatting with him he wanted something that he would be able to strap on his belt that would be easy to carry and deploy in the event that things went sideways. Since most cougars and wildcats around here are fairly thin skinned this did not need to be super beefy or long. He wants something with a double guard and around 5 inches of blade length as the vitals are not very deep on a cougar. I went to work and came up with the knife below.

It is a d2 blade with stacked micarta for the guard/top half of the handle and ebony wood for the lower section. I was trying to go with something that would provide good grip and prevent the hand from sliding up onto the blade while still being small enough to be comfortable to carry.
As was related to me when the CO's go after a cat they usually dump most of their gear except for their pistol, magazines and a knife as they use hounds to tree the cat and need to shed as much weight as they can to keep up with the dogs. So with all of that being said I thought that I would put it out there to the community to see if any of you see any design elements that could be tweaked or changed to improve on the design. Thanks in advance

Grayden aka g dub

 

[i4Marc]

I think this is a question with many solutions. As you say, the skin is thin and vitals aren't very deep. A sharp stick would work. What you have designed should work fine. It's a damn shame when a cat has to be dispatched though.

 

[HWooldridge]

Lord have mercy, I wouldn't want to fight a cougar or bobcat up close - too many claws and teeth. I hope the first CO came out OK.

 

[Spideyjg]

Lord have mercy, I wouldn't want to fight a cougar or bobcat up close - too many claws and teeth. I hope the first CO came out OK.

No doubt! An irate house cat will jack you up in a blink. I shudder to imagine the speed and damage a bobcat and larger would do.

The handle idea seems solid but did you consider a dagger or sticking knife blade shape? Stab and then either push or pull would enlarge the wound.

Jim

 

[Tin.Man]

Look at hog sticking knives or anything World War One and two trench daggers.

Having seen mountain lions attack, with only a knife your probably gonna die.

 

[CoryMc]

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/spyderco-knife-vs-mountain-lion.923982/

 

[g dub]

Lord have mercy, I wouldn't want to fight a cougar or bobcat up close - too many claws and teeth. I hope the first CO came out OK.

Yes he was only off work for a short time.

No doubt! An irate house cat will jack you up in a blink. I shudder to imagine the speed and damage a bobcat and larger would do.

The handle idea seems solid but did you consider a dagger or sticking knife blade shape? Stab and then either push or pull would enlarge the wound.

Jim

When we were talking about a design all I could think about was how hard it is to try and give a house cat a bath! I've seen Americas Funniest Home videos

 

[HWooldridge]

I've killed several hogs with a knife - but I had a couple of big dogs helping to hold them. Cats are a different story.

 

[Jonathans]

If you care for the guy get him a shotgun

 

[i4Marc]

Upon further reflection I have a couple of thoughts. While the blade length may be sufficient I still feel longer is better. If you have to use a knife for the job I would want more reach. I would also want a longer double guard. The handle looks very smooth and round. I might add a sub hilt or finger grooves to add purchase on the handle. At the very least I would make the handle more of a soft rectangle, more defined at the corners to resist twisting in the hand. And because you don't know what kind of tussle you might end up in with the animal I would want a lanyard hole in the handle so I could wrap a lanyard around my wrist before "going in". You might be knocked down by the animal and you don't want the knife to get away from you.

 

[lonepine]

It seems to me that if one started with a military style dagger you would be three-quarters of the way to the final design. I think the Applegate or Ek knives would be reasonable places to begin investigating. I don't feel the Fairbain design is robust enough.



- Paul Meske (lonepine)
Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin

 

[skillgannon]

The various "Bowies" were what was used in North America back when people carried the knife for backup. Large daggers/sticking knives were also used both in America and in Europe going way back. Germany had styles of large messers that were carried in response to laws against daggers and swords. Knives that were not intended to be used against someone in armor tended to have much wider blades so they could slash as well. Clipped swedged or double edges help with stabbing.

You knife is basically a dagger and that is always a great place to start. Fighting knives are usually larger if it is possible to carry them. If concealment is not a issue I think something more bowie like or a leaf shaped dagger with a blade at least 7", 9" is a pretty historically blade length. There are at least some schools of thought that Bowies were to be used as thrusting knives even though they chop well.

I don't claim to be any kind of expert but I do read a bit. I think that the A/F daggers in WW2 were not meant as a fighting knives but more for killing. I know that sounds funny but from what I understand they intended use was to come from behind and pull the head back and ram the blade in. Not that it can't be used in many other ways . I'm sure others know a lot more and could correct any mistakes. Larger knives will give more room for error. i4Marc has some sticking knives that would be pretty awsome for your intended use.

I know this was a bit rambling but since most of use have never taken on wild animals with a knife it's good to look at historical times when they did carry them for your intended purpose . Most of those knives were 9" to 12" blades. I guess you have to factor in what can be carried legally as well as scary factor and weight. A grippy handle would also be a big plus.

 

[Randydb]

I like the title...last ditch...basically that is what you are down to if a cougar goes for you.

Thing to consider with a mountain lion. They are not physically overpowering like a bear. A bear will rip, crush and bat you around if it gets ahold of you. Great crushing power in their jaws. They will take a beating and keep coming. Cougars are agile stealth hunters that are not as physically strong as a bear and are less likely to want to meet head on. They tend to stalk, and pounce on bigger prey. Hold it down and bite the throat to suffocate it. This buys us humans a few moments to get the knife out and start fighting back. They can't afford injury so if the prey manages to fight back and start hurting the cougar there is a good chance it will let go and find something less challenging. So stabbing the cougar...even if it doesn't kill it has a reasonable chance of making it give up and leave you alone.

I live just north of the border on the west coast. Spend tons of time in the bush, as well as work daily at an outdoor school. I carry a 5" hunting/bushcraft styled knife on my hip daily. Use the knife for a million things and if the day comes when a cougar decides to mess with a student/staff/me it will be used on the cougar....my money is it will do the job nicely.

Finally, in my 54 years in the bush I have seen 4 cougar. Not one was aggressive. I've seen another dozen on trail cams and I am sure I have passed many many more that I was never aware of. Cougar attacks are rare. To carry a knife that was solely purposed for fighting off predators wouldn't make sense to me. I would stick with something that is durable, useful, and big enough for many many different uses, and in a last ditch moment will deter a cougar too.