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Thomas Linton

Thomas Linton

Joined
Jun 16, 2003
Messages
20,206
FLASH. NO PD shoots eight (8) Army Corps of Engineers contractor employees, killing "five or six." So sorry.

Fox News live from NO.
 
I am hearing on Fox that there were shots fired at the contractors, and the police returned fire killing the shooter. But, no contractors were hurt. As usual news from NO is crystal clear. :confused:

n2s
 
Too true.

ABS reports (6:32 PM) that AP says shots were fired at contractors and NOLA PD "shot" five of the shooters.
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050905/ts_nm/katrina_dc

Five men who were looting exchanged gunfire with police. The officers engaged the looters when they were fired upon," said New Orleans superintendent of police, Steven Nichols.

U.S. Army Corps of Engineers contractors working on a levee breach were fired on by gunmen but no one was hurt, said the Corps' Mike Rogers. It was not clear if the two incidents were connected.
 
I am going to say this because it needs to be said.

Most of Katrina's victims were black and poor, and some black leaders have said the federal government would have moved much quicker if rich, white people were suffering. NEW ORLEANS (Reuters)
Click to expand...

The above quote isnt true. 80% of New Orleans residents evacuated to safety before the Hurricane.
Those who chose to stay behind, CHOSE TO STAY BEHIND.
Probably because they intended to loot themselves a new TV.
Everybody knew it was coming, even I knew it was coming and I live in G#d D#$%ed Japan.
Those who stayed did so out of choice.
"Oh, we have been abandoned by our country, we martyrs and Saints and poor helpless victims"

Horse shlt.
 
DIJ if they had been abandoned by their country then why in the hell were
they standing outside the Convention Center chanting "Help,help, help"?

Shouldn't the chant have been "Help yourselves, help yourselves" what kind
of idiot stands there with nothing in their hands screaming for help?

I would have hiked the heck out of there.
 
If you have no money and no transportation is provided, the only choice is to stay or, if able, walk. So stay in a building, behind levees or endure the storm on the highway, in the open. Tough choice.

Some tens of thousands who stayed were poor and old, disabled, or mentally "challenged." They had no choice between walk or stay.

Some who stayed were children. Adults made their choice for them.

Some who stayed had small children who could not walk and stayed to protect those children. Heroes.

Some who stayed had employers who told them to stay. They feared to lose jobs and stayed.

Some chose to stay out of fear of looting, and they were right to fear looting.

Some chose to "ride it out." Bad decision, but not necessarily from evil motives.

Some stayed because they were safety forces or medical personnel. More heroes.

Some stayed to "cover" the storm.

Some stayed for the excitement.

Some probably stayed out of evil motives.


Plenty of blame to go around but not just for staying as such unless we say they exhibited blameworthy poor judgment -- which none of us have ever done, I am sure.

As for whether the rich, black, white, or green, get better treatment most times, let experience answer.
 
Thats right.
Then again, its so easy to play the victim when there is actually some kind of disaster to point at.
I bet they were never happier. It sounds terrible, I know, but I know those people. That's my part of the country.
Im telling you, most of them will be relocated into a situation far better than what they had BEFORE the hurricane and they know it.
 
Then again, its so easy to play the victim when there is actually some kind of disaster to point at.
Click to expand...

It's even easier to blame the victims, rather than summon the moral courage to abandon our judgmental tendencies and extend a compassionate hand.

Please, let's not use this humanitarian tragedy as a platform for our socio-political agendas. Instead, let's follow the compassionate example Uncle Bill set for us.
 
ruel said:
It's even easier to blame the victims, rather than summon the moral courage to abandon our judgmental tendencies and extend a compassionate hand.

Please, let's not use this humanitarian tragedy as a platform for our socio-political agendas. Instead, let's follow the compassionate example Uncle Bill set for us.
Click to expand...

An excellent point, there is a time for recriminations but this is not that time.

And I think that this transcends socio-economic agendas. There are literally
hundreds of thousands of people who have lost everything.

So to paraphrase Chicago's Mayor Daly, Give early give often.
 
know how criminally stupid it is to attempt to ride out a Cat 5 hurricane, period, much less in a city that sits below sea level...would you attempt to stay in an above ground typical house when someone guaranteed it was going to be hit by an F2 tornado that would last for hours? Or might you make at least an attempt to flee? Surely, there were the infirm who couldn't make the attempt, and just as surely, many of those had someone who could have helped them, even a stranger....with such a disaster looming, what sickens me about the entire situation is the fact that those who could and wanted to leave, did...those who didn't or couldn't, didn't...but nowhere was there any centrally mandated effort to get as many out of there as humanly possible...there should have been streams of footbound folk fleeing that city, with many being given rides in any vehicle that had a spare seat, roof, bed, trailer, or trunk, but that didn't happen, which is no suprise to anyone who lives on the coast, and shouldn't be to anyone who lives in a major metro area.....and what has happened afterwards should be no suprise to any of the latter class of folk, either....personally, I would have fled by any means possible...personally, I would have fled a dead-end urban setting by any means possible even without a hurricane.....I do not buy into the "they had no choice" theory of anything...we ALWAYS have a choice, even if that choice is denying we have one at all....
 
(several deep breaths)

I want to meet these guys when they're 85 and suffering from organic brain syndrome or terminal emphysema. We can have a good talk about choices.


No, actually, we won't be able to do that, will we?


And the babies.


So much harder to forgive the "able" for lack of thought.


In Uncle Bills' memory, I will try -- so very, very hard.
 
Thomas you're right, there are many innocent victims. Hell, they're all victims, but don't dream them into the parts of heroes.
If you use a grinder without eye protection and then lay on the ground screaming for help because a piece of metal flew into your eye, Are you a victim?
Yes, but you asked for it.
If I try to help you and you shoot at me, what then?
How is President Bush to blame for what happened to you ?

I think the bible actually says something about this kind of behavior, ignoring warnings and then crying about the consequences...

I would offer help because it is the right thing to do, but I would offer no pity to those who stayed out of choice. If you have the capacity to complain, rape, snipe, carjack, murder and loot, then you have the capacity to leave town, and help others leave, before the storm hits.

Why did a single person go without food or water?
Even if you are broke and carless, any damned fool can fill some empty pop bottles with water from the tap BEFORE the storm.
Anybody can gather up canned food and other such stuff into a bag BEFORE the storm.
Right now I bet you could go round the house and come back with several gallons of water in plastic containers and enough food for two or three days and maybe more than that, couldnt you?

Choice. Those people Chose to be victims. It's one of their favorite things to do.
 
DannyinJapan, I am going to have to disagree with you here.

If you have almost nothing, but you do have a little bit of something maybe
not valuable to someone else but it is to you. How easy would that be to
walk away from? To just drop everything that you own on the speculative
thought that Katrina was going to hit your city?

Not to mention the fact Katrina missed NOLA, it wasn't until Tuesday that
the disaster's second wave started.

Foolish? Is it foolish to be bound to something to be even willing to die for
it? However, if you have a thousand dollars in your pocket 100 dollars is gone
no great loss, if you only have twenty dollars and you lose even that then
you are wiped out.

I can understand why some stayed, I can't understand why some thought
that the govt was Santa and would make everything "alright".
 
you dont normally call people liars in public, Kismet, is that what you're saying?
I want to be sure about this...
Before you find out about a family member of mine who was raped in New Orelans about 15 years ago.
New Orleans was a toilet before the storm.
 
Methinks there are some who didn't have much, if any, choice except to stay. There are some folks in today's USA that unfortunately can't go to their cupboards and dig out enough food for two or three days. They may not even have enough for one decent meal!!!!
I know there are people here in Tulsa that would have no choice except to stay put if we were warned that such a storm was coming.
Even some of them that are fortunate to have a vehicle wouldn't have the money to leave town with or to have a place to stay if their vehicle could even get them far enough out of harms way.
There have been times when I was a wee lad that my family lived under those kinds of conditions at times.
 
WE all attempt to make sense of a world beyond us, our collective or individual scope. We sometimes take shortcuts in defining things.

We can't broadbrush the remaining population in New Orleans which took the Storm. They were many things: working poor, drunks and addicts, infirm, elderly, mentally ill, and others.

I doubt the majority of them stayed behind to 'loot'.
What is discouraging is that many of them represent the disenfranchised, and when the shooters were driving away help, firing upon boats and helicopters, where was the community outrage?

The whole thing is too damned sad and no one deserved to be in New Orleans unless it is those who later shot at help. That's about the only generalization I feel like making.


munk
 
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