Latest Emerson (CQC-15): Drool, Shake & Admire!

Yeah, thicker liner on the lock side on production knives and two sided grind would make many of Mr. Emerson designs perfect for me...
 
Nick Hyle said:
Maybe for your fingers. As good as an Axis? Please. Just because you like Emerson knives doesn't make the lock a world beater.
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I find this comment a little weird. Don't get me wrong, there's no excuse for a faulty lock that's sold to the public, but liner locks can be done very well. It also doesn't have to be a world beater- but then again neither is the axis. A lock is a necessity, but its no substitute for common sense. If you're doing something you think might test the lock THAT much, then you should either get another tool, or a fixed blade. There are some liner locks that I don't trust- but EKI's don't cause me to lose sleep.

The Axis is nice, but it isn't the be all and the end all.

-Anthony
 
emerson and benchmade collaborated once on the cqc-7... wouldn't a 2nd generation cqc-7 collaboration with the axis lock be great! imagine a cqc-7 with wave, both side grind and axis lock!!! *drool*
 
Hair said:
It seems like a lot of people think that putting a scale on the side of a framelock (which they do consider to be a good lock) somehow automatically makes the lock unacceptable.
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I agree that a good liner lock is reliable. I can't imagine problems with my Buck Strider 880. But there is a significant difference between a liner lock and an equivalent framelock.

When you hold a framelock open, your hand is pressing the lock bar in. On a liner lock, the handle slab keeps your hand from contacting the lock, leaving it more subject to failing under torque.

- ------ ---- ------ -

Quick comment on Emerson grinds:

The chisel grind found on his tanto blades is only ground on one side, both the primary and secondary bevels.

On his other knives, he does use v-grinds, with a symmetrical primary bevel on each side -- but he only puts a secondary bevel on the left side. This can lead to a slight curving off of the blade when slicing.

If you don't like the effect, just sharpen a secondary bevel onto the right side as well.
 
J85909266 said:
I'll never understand these companies that make these awesome, overbuilt, super heavy duty looking tactical folders, and then put a f***ing liner lock, the wuss of all locks, in them. I see it way too much.
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That's the only reason I don't buy an Emerson.
 
Very nice design. Looks like the marriage of Spyderco's Manix grip with MT's MTX2's bolster and scale design. I too don't mind linerlocks. Have several and, for the way I use'em, the linerlocks are fine. Would I want to use them in a tactical situation, probably not ...
 
Native Justice said:
Very nice design. Looks like the marriage of Spyderco's Manix grip with MT's MTX2's bolster and scale design. I too don't mind linerlocks. Have several and, for the way I use'em, the linerlocks are fine. Would I want to use them in a tactical situation, probably not ...
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Which exactly the point. I agree that a good liner lock is strong. I have my OH SAK which is a liner lock. It prevents accidental closure in normal mundane task.

However, as a this is a thick tactical knife being discussed here, I think it's better to have a more solid lock, perhaps licensing an AXIS, making them into balisongs, etc. Being tactical (in my mind it is more akin to 'combat'), the knife will be required to go through many forces applied to it, which might include accidentally disengaging the lock, and we all agree that liner lock is quite prone to slippage, and some are worse in different environment (wet, oil spill, etc.).
 
Nick Hyle said:
Just because you like Emerson knives doesn't make the lock a world beater.
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and just because you dont like liner locks it doesnt make liner locks trash. a well executed liner lock works just fine.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
But there is a significant difference between a liner lock and an equivalent framelock.
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I agree to a certain degree, but my point was that this difference does not make a liner lock unacceptable. Adding a scale doesn't make the lock itself less strong.

The "white knuckle" factor is the advantage of most framelocks, but I don't feel it is actually very signifigant.

I definitly prefer framelocks, but I find it silly that some people draw their line of acceptable versus unacceptable between these two VERY similar designs. Since many liner locks are far stronger than many framelocks, I don't think such a line can be drawn without a lot of very biased zig-zagging.

I think the only reasonable course is to judge the knife and lock on its own merit. This can vary not just from model to model, but even between knives of the same model. For someone to distrust a knife without even testing it based purely on the fact that it has a scale next to its virtual "framelock" seems very foolish to me.

I consider "I generally distrust liner locks and feel they are generally not very good based on experience, so I make sure to scrutinize any liner lock before I buy it or use it hard. But I am sure there are good liner locks out there, or at least I accept the possibility that a liner lock can be a proper lock if done right." to be fine. But "I won't buy a liner lock knife because I do not trust them. I must love my fingers more than you do." to be close-minded and insulting.

I respect a lot of the people saying liner locks are bad and I know they may have far more experience with knives than I do. But liner locks continue to be used by a HUGE amount of top knife makers, production and custom. I think they know what they are doing.

Emerson knives are heavy-duty tactical knives. Their locks are sound. They have passed the real world tests. Their locks should not be a concern any more so than any other quality lock.

Liner locks fail a lot because many low-quality knives and companies use them. Low-end lockbacks and framelocks suck just as much. And if BM allowed Maxim or Mtech to use the Axis lock, I am sure there would be a lot of people that don't trust Axis locks either. But a good, strong lock is a good strong lock. Less important than what the lock is called is how strong the particular lock on the particular knife in question is. Sweeping generalizations about a lock type do very little good. And when the result of such a generalization is a boycott of a locktype, I feel a great injustice is done and the person making the mistake is causing their own loss.
 
my custom emerson CQC6 and CQC8 lock up as good as anything, imho std EKI's a few yrs ago did seem to have some issues with the liner locks, probably due to a lot of waving, but imho EKI corrected the probs a whle back, if there were probs, i havent heard of any post '02 EKIs having any probs with the liner locks, i think a lot of the "problem" was EKI going to thinner liner locks on commanders in '98 or so. point being any std EKI ya buy now is gonna be just fine, if not EKI has one of the best warranties around and a short turn around time for repair.

still worried about liner lock issues yet like ernies designs? go buy a custom, not cheap but absolutly no lock issues, period. get ready to spend $700 minimum though, and probably more like a grand. great investment though.
 
Hair said:
I think the only reasonable course is to judge the knife and lock on its own merit. .
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Agreed and valid point made.

However, it seems to me that the concern on those of us who generally are not 100% sold on this specific lock design is because these knives are marketed as "hard use" (i.e. - tasked to do or handled in such a way that lesser-made knives will prove inadequate). I might come off as trying to split hairs but a liner lock is more like "prevents the blade from closing" rather than the other types which functions more of "can hold the blade open strongly and more resistant to outside forces". Just my .02 on the topic.
 
Obviously Ernie doens't agree with the findings of some in the knife world that find the liner lock is less than acceptable. Based on the speed with which his knives move off of shelves it seems there are many others out there that don't buy into or believe the hype regarding the liner lock either. Actually when you look at the real world uses his knives are being used for in police, self defense, combat and rescue one has to wonder if there is much in the way of merit to the few shouting how faulty this lock system is. Why would someone in those fields use it and then buy more still if they didn't work? These knives are not just marketed as hard use. I know guys, many of which are members here and elsewhere that do in fact use them very hard.

I find it interesting to note all those saying how easily the liner lock defeats because I had a Specwar recently that I could hardly close without great force and pain in my fingers and thumb and that was when I wanted to close it. That lock stuck so much I can't imagine it failing at all under any conditions. In fact the lock sticking so strong was the reason I sold the knife.

Personally I've only owned a handful of Emerson knives. I love Ernie and have great respect for him. My biggest gripe with his line is not the lock, but instead is the grinds. I just can't warm to the one side only grind, particularly when it is on the left side only. I have liked a couple of the EKI knives I've owned well enough to keep them though.

STR
 
as far as real fighting folders go, custom ones, almost all of them are liner lock, all emerson, all terzuola, lotsa striders, the great majority are liner lock.
 
SIFU1A said:
as far as real fighting folders go, custom ones, almost all of them are liner lock, all emerson, all terzuola, lotsa striders, the great majority are liner lock.
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I remember a thread here (the "Urban Jungle" forum), a few years back, where Chris Caracci (a bonafide, real deal "high-speed Operator") pretty much stated the same thing about the choice of the liner-lock for a combat folding knife lock. It works!

The only disadvantage, IMHO, to a properly made liner-lock, is the fact that, as it wears, the geometry of the liner-face/tang mating point changes, which could potentially cause a failure down the road. Always test your locks, no matter what type of lock you have!

Best wishes,
3G
 
i remember that thread, he liked the std liner lock 800 BM AFCK over the axis AFCK because he thought the probability of accidental release of the axis was too high in a bad situation, and said if ya had to carry the axis to grind down the buttons some so they didnt protrude out of the handle as much.
 
If you grind down the buttons so they dont protrude out of the handle as much, you've almost got ... a ball lock. :)
 
Blah Blah Blah...

I agree with STR - people buy them and keep buying them because they fulfill whatever mission they are purchased for.

Take the argument to it's extreme:

'I can't believe that anyone would actually market a 'folding knife' for hard use or 'Combat'. Why have a knife with a lock and moving parts when you really need a fixed blade...'

Regards,

Jeremy
 
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