LAX security disarms GI Joe

you have got to be kidding me... did this stuff really happen?! if it did, thats pretty outrageous...

im flying to california in two weeks... now im all nervous...

you know, i used to love flying and airports, but it bothers me that i cant take a pocket knife on an airplane, as i have been doing for the last 20 years... no weapons allowed? guess ill have to leave my hands and feet at the security checkpoint... and my elbows and knees... and my shoulders and hips... hell, they probably wont even let me on the plane!!! ill have to ship myself via ups!!! no, wait, they have regulations against hazardous substances...

looks like ill be driving to california...
 
"...but rather in making a show to the public that steps are being taken to protect them"

I understand and agree with the point your making. It kind of reminds me of the high school student that got suspended for taking Motrin to relieve her menstrual cramps ( the school district had a "zero-tolerance" policy on drugs). They are all just pityfully overcompensating :(
 
"it kind of reminds me of the high school student that got suspended for taking Motrin to relieve her menstrual cramps ( the school district had a "zero-tolerance" policy on drugs). They are all just pityfully overcompensating"

That has got to be a big part of it.

There was also the jr. high school student who got suspended for bringing a table knife and fork to school along with her roasted chicken lunch. Her parents were on TV and her father said:

"Don't punish her, punish us. We taught her to eat with a knife and fork."
 
Yvsa: The links worked fine from my end. If you still have problem, contact me directly. In the mean time , here are some more info form the TSA website:

Items Prohibited in Aircraft Cabins

The following items will not be allowed through the security checkpoint. Please note that this list is not all-inclusive. In addition to items specifically listed here, other items that may be deemed to present a potential threat may also be prohibited.


Ammunition
Automatic weapons
Axes
Baseball bats
BB guns
Billy clubs
Blackjacks
Blasting caps
Bows and arrows
Box cutters
Brass knuckles
Bull whips
Cattle prods
Compressed air guns
Corkscrews
Cricket bats
Crow bars
Disabling chemicals or gases
Dynamite
Fire extinguishers
Flare pistols
Golf clubs
Gun lighters
Gunpowder
Hammers
Hand grenades
Hatchets
Hockey sticks
Hunting knives
Ice axe/Ice pick
Knives (any length)
Kubatons
Large, heavy tools (such as wrenches, pliers, etc.)
Mace
Martial arts devices
Meat cleavers
Metal scissors with pointed tips
Numchucks (nunchaku)
Pellet guns
Pen knives
Pepper spray
Pistols
Plastic explosives
Pool cues
Portable power drills
Portable power saws
Razor blades (not in a cartridge)
Religious knives
Replica weapons
Revolvers
Rifles
Road flares
SCUBA knives
Sabers
Screwdrivers
Shot guns
Ski poles
Spear guns
Starter pistols
Straight razors
Stun guns/shocking devices
Swords
Tear gas
Throwing stars
Toy transformer robots (this toy forms a toy gun)
Toy weapons

Passengers should be aware that there are no provisions for returning banned items to them when they are left at the security checkpoint. In addition, those who attempt to bring banned items through the checkpoints are subject to civil penalties of up to $1,100 per violation in addition to criminal penalties.
The items most commonly left at the checkpoints include: scissors (of all types), pocketknives, corkscrews, and mace. Please be sure to leave these items at home or in your check-in luggage.

While the above items are strictly prohibited from being carried into the aircraft cabin, many may be transported in checked baggage with these important exceptions:

Firearms and starter pistols may be transported in checked baggage so long as they are unloaded and declared to the airline at the ticket counter before you go to the screening checkpoint.
Small arms ammunition for personal use may be carried in checked baggage but only if securely packed in fiber, wood or metal boxes, or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
One self-defense spray (pepper spray or mace) not exceeding 4 fl. oz. may be carried in a checked bag if it has a positive means to prevent accidental discharge.

Compressed air guns, fire extinguishers, flare pistols, and gun lighters are regulated as hazardous materials and may only be transported as cargo on passenger planes under strict limitations in quantity and packaging.
Other items listed above are entirely forbidden in air transportation. These include disabling chemicals or gases, dynamite, gunpowder, hand grenades, plastic explosives, road flares, and tear gas.
Passengers should also note that there are many items not referred to here that are restricted or forbidden as hazardous materials.
For more information, you may also call the Hazardous Materials Information Center at 1-800-467-4922. Violations of the hazardous materials regulations may result in fines of up to $27,500 per violation, as well as criminal fines and/or jail.


Items Permitted in Aircraft Cabins

Pets (if permitted by airline, check with airline for procedures)
Walking canes and umbrellas(once inspected to ensure prohibited items are not concealed)
Braille note taker, slate and stylus, and augmentation devices
Nail clippers with nail files attached
Nail files
Tweezers
Safety razors (including disposable razors)
Eyelash curlers
Diabetes-related supplies/equipment (syringes, insulin, insulin-pump, blood glucose meter, etc. Medication and professionally printed label identifying medication or manufacturer’s name). Please make sure insulin (vials or outer box of individual doses), jet injectors, pens, infusers, and preloaded syringes are marked properly (professionally printed label identifying the medication or manufacturer’s name or pharmaceutical label).

Guidelines for Getting Onboard

Guidelines for Getting Onboard


Allow extra time:

Heightened security measures require more time to properly screen travelers. Travelers should contact their airline to find out how early they should arrive.



Check-in
A government-issued ID (federal, state, or local) will be requested. Each traveler should be prepared to show ID at the ticket counter and subsequent points, such as at the boarding gate, along with an airline-issued boarding pass.
Curbside check-in is available on an airline-by-airline basis. Travelers should contact their airline to see if it is available at their airport.
E-ticket travelers should check with their airline to make sure they have proper documentation. Written confirmation, such as a letter from the airline acknowledging the reservation, may be required to pass through a security checkpoint.



Screener checkpoints
Only ticketed passengers are allowed beyond the security checkpoints. (Arrangements can be made with the airlines for non-travelers accompanying children, and travelers needing special assistance to get to the gate.)
Don't discuss terrorism, weapons, explosives, or other threats while going through the security checkpoint. Don't joke about having a bomb or firearm. The mere mention of words such as "gun," "bomb," etc., can compel security personnel to detain and question you. They are trained to consider these comments as real threats.
Each traveler will be limited to one carry-on bag and one personal item (such as purse or briefcase). Travelers and their bags may be subject to additional screening at the gate.
All electronic items (such as laptops and cell phones) are subject to additional screening. Be prepared to remove your laptop from its travel case so that each can be X-rayed separately.
Limit metal objects worn on your person or clothing.
Remove metal objects (such as keys, cell phones, change, etc.) prior to passing through the metal detectors to facilitate the screening process. (Putting metal objects in your carry-on bag will expedite the process of going through the metal detector.)


At all times
Control all bags and personal items.
Do not accept any items to carry onboard a flight from anyone unknown to you.
Report any unattended items in the airport or on an aircraft to the nearest airport, airline or security personnel.


Finally remember that:

1) You will be dealing with a federal employee
2) That his/her education might not be more than 8th grade
3) That, while he/she must be a US citizen and pass a basic English WRITTEN test, it does not mean that you will be able to understand them when they talk to you :confused: :confused: :confused:

All of the above for an average salary of $37,700 + federal benefits.

Personnaly, I am of of the worst traveler, so most of the time if I can , I take the train;) ;) ;)

One final comment: In the last month, on 3 occasions, screeners detected and prevented pilots who fit the legal definition of "above the limit" to get on board and operate an aircraft full of passengers while legally drunk. That alone is good enough for me to justify checkpoints!
 
Every time I read a story like this about the stupidity of people I take a big sigh, and feel depressed....it's getting to the stage though where I am sighing and depressed all day.
Morons morons morons morons......God almighty....I really must find a small island somewhere and get the hell out of here before I blow my top and "go postal".
I might take a trip to the local airport with a badge on my jacket....the pin must surely be an offensive weapon!??!!


Jeff
 
Agreed!

Beoram--You hit the nail on the head.

Also, remeber that most people before 9/11 walked around in a haze, thinking blind thoughts of future fictions while a mellow soundtrack of elevator muzak played in their heads. Then suddenly--they were all snapped awake in shock, pulled to the bleeding edge of the present moment. You could see it in some sheeple's eyes, the stark look of terror of being awake, truly awake. It was like a forced enlightenment--suddenly everyone was forced to "get a clue."
DOn't worry, tho. Most of them went back to sleep after a month or so, back to the cloudy, warm recesses of the Ego, where all is painted happy pastel tones, warmth and softness...and muzak plays on...

Keith
EN Ferro Veritas
 
I am uncomfortable with many of the post 9/11 developments in this country.

In particular, we stand in danger of losing important freedoms in the name of increased security. We are required to show travel documents in order to travel on many of the major transportation systems. The protections against unreasonable search and seizure are also being eroded. A recent court case here in Washington State upheld the right of the police to randomly search vehicles that were getting on the state ferries. The argument that use of the nation’s transportation systems is a voluntary choice, and a citizen gives up constitutional rights when he uses the systems, is disingenuous. A citizen is at a serious economic handicap if he “chooses” not to use those systems. The “choice” is to submit to government demands or to be relegated to an economic underclass.

Seizures of tee shirts, reading material, or tiny toy weapons can not by any stretch of the imagination be claimed to increase our security. Although I have taken great pains to check in my baggage anything that I thought questionable, and certainly everything on the official lists, I have had property confiscated. At the El Paso airport, a checkpoint staffer took a liking to the ferrocerium rod I carry on my keychain for starting fires. Although the rod had passed through many security checkpoints before without incident, the security person was able to keep my property. Discussion was not a viable alternative for me, as armed military personnel were close by and visibly concerned with the agitation of the checkpoint person. I had a flight to catch and could not afford a delay. The security person knew this and used it to advantage in the seizure of my property.

Constitutional protections are much easier to relinquish than they are to recover. The Constitution and the laws are in a continual process of interpretation by the courts. The day may come soon when the laws of the United States offer no protection from depredation and abuse of citizens by transportation system and government employees.
 
What did we expect? What they have been doing to our kids in school is now being done to the rest of us.

n2s
 
I think we are giving to broad a level of control to ordinary human beings. What in sam heck is considered a martial arts device. The mere definition is screwy.

A pencil, a paper clip,a toothpick, a ballpoint pen, a cane, a shoe lace?

It's the doll incident all over again.
 
"At the El Paso airport, a checkpoint staffer took a liking to the ferrocerium rod I carry on my keychain for starting fires."

I've wondered about those (curious--did they know it's properties/use and deem it hazardous or was it metal="weapon"?), or the small bit of hacksaw blade many carry to scrape one. Or the tiny folding "GI canopener". I guess if it isn't on the allowed list, it could wind up belonging to someone else. Hopefully the supervisors will be enabled and willing to make decisions based upon reasonable comparison to the allowed items.

Tough call on the transportation system/voluntary choice--Where to draw the line? What about auto license requirements or emission inspections. While not as invasive, we give up something there to use public roads. On the other side, should mandatory housing codes and their inspections become voluntary and the owner can choose whether or not to receive fire response? We agenerally accept those restrictions. People get used to such things, which is part of the danger of recklessly adding more.

A list of approved items or a ruling on "voluntary" use of transportation systems can't cover all situations or replace judgement and reasonablness. I consider the latter two to be part of the professionalism that has been promised, and I hope it is available as needed.
 
You have a strong point, Howard. I think this all bears a very close watch and if we see things getting too far out of control it will be time to make a move.
 
The goal of any terrorist movement has always been 2 folds:

- Gain as much public exposure but commiting acts that will generate the most coverage.===> I don't think anybody will ever forget the pictures we saw on TV on Sept. 11.

_ Disrupt/alieanate the government in place by creating such unsafe/unpopular conditions that any effective security measure becomes invasive. What is not gained by killing innocent people is gained when the reaction of the other side becomes unberable.===> Looks like they are succeeding by reading the posts of this link.

While I whole heartedly (spelling ?)agree that it is becoming a pain in the a*** to travel by air theses days, there are not many options left to provide good security.

I have a solution that might work:

1)Everybody flies naked....no exception. This will do wonders to:
- keep you entertained,
- keep the flight attendants (who usually are nasty old hags) a little more friendly,
- save money ( no more uniforms to buy---> Cheaper tickets) and will provide the best security.

2) Upon boarding the plane, everybody gets a gun.( same model so that no one is jealous, same number of bullets). You keep it for the entire flight and turn it back when leaving the plane.


I have personnaly booked a seat on every flight taken by the Swedish bikini team :D :D :D Can't wait for when their are going to pass the peanuts!
 
Pierre,

I like your option #2. May I suggest a slight modification? Each seat pocket is equipped with a HI khukuri, in addition to the magazines and safety card showing the exits. The metal detectors are moved from the present security checkpoints to the exit ramps in order to prevent any dishonest passengers from walking off with the aircraft’s khukuris.

Airplane passengers are then free to bring any items they wish on board. Pictures of the remains of unsuccessful hijackers would be posted in prominent locations in the airports. Airlines could sponsor promotional contests. For instance, the passenger who comes off the flight with the largest body part from an unsuccessful terrorist could win a free flight.

I think this would do wonders for the spirits of airline travelers, as well as reduce terrorism. It would also boost HI sales.

The threads always come back to khukuris, don’t they?

;)
 
my girlfriend and her mother were flying about a month ago, so me and her stepfather went to the airport to see them off... we got to talking about what would be allowed on the plane and what wouldnt (she carries mace and a patty kat on her keychain)... her stepfather summoned over one of the security personnel and jokingly asked if pens were allowed on the plane... the security guy says that they are... i proceed to point out that you could easily kill someone with a pen or a pencil if you know what youre doing... the security guy looks at me and says "yeah, you could, but where do you draw the line?"... where do you DRAW the line... i swear, everybodys a comedian...
 
Seizures of tee shirts, reading material, or tiny toy weapons can not by any stretch of the imagination be claimed to increase our security. Although I have taken great pains to check in my baggage anything that I thought questionable, and certainly everything on the official lists, I have had property confiscated. At the El Paso airport, a checkpoint staffer took a liking to the ferrocerium rod I carry on my keychain for starting fires. Although the rod had passed through many security checkpoints before without incident, the security person was able to keep my property. Discussion was not a viable alternative for me, as armed military personnel were close by and visibly concerned with the agitation of the checkpoint person. I had a flight to catch and could not afford a delay. The security person knew this and used it to advantage in the seizure of my property

This is THEFT!!!:barf: You should be able to request to go to a separate security station (to be located nearby) and fill out a form that allows you to track your property or at least have a record of what was confiscated. If the item meets the real list of prohibited items you don't get it back, or you pay to do so. HOWEVER, (like in this case, it was the moron at the security posts fault) if its their fault, they send it to you for free.
 
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