Laying Up Burlap with G Flex Epoxy for Scales?

redsquid2

Rockabilly Interim Pardon Viscount
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Aug 31, 2011
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Just an idea: Take G Flex epoxy and use it to lay it up porous materials: lenin, burlap, polyester fleece, denim or curduroy. I don't know if this is cost effective, or if you would need a vacuum chamber or some other advanced technology.

Has anyone ever tried it?
 
How about Tite Bond II? Supposedly waterproof. I assume it is phenolic based.
 
Yes people have tried it. It works to a point. Vacuum or pressure to eliminate voids and bubbles is a requirement and not 100% successful. Even Shadetree Custom Composites stuff has voids in it. Most people who do this satisfy their curiosity and move on to buying their composites.

We should establish a measuring index for evaluating the possibilities of some tasks we undertake. Call it "Halfass to Professional Rating" or HPR. A 1 to 10 scale, 1 being no matter what, in comparison to professional products or services either because of the investment or unavailability of materials, the measured task will be halfass. 10 being you can do it yourself just as well as any professional service/product.

So for example, I'm going to give Heat Treating a 9 HPR. All of the proper equipment is available to us. Reams of data is available from trial and error, testing, even actual metalurgists posting about cutlery specific heat treatment protocols. There's literally nothing, outside some proprietary schedules, that Peters or Bos or whomever does that a custom knifemaker can't do himself - the difference is simply scale of capabilities. The only reason it's not a 10 is because of the vast amount of ways people can and do screw it up.

Stabilizing wood. Let's call that a 6. You can do it at home. You can do it to a high degree of satisfaction depending on the wood type. You cannot match what K&G can do. So, serviceable.

Smelting your own steel. How about a 2. You can do it. People are making wootz and tamamamamagahne or whatever. It's a huge investment in time and labor. No one I've seen who actually does this, seems to do anything but this I'm guessing because of the time, and no matter how good they get, it'll never make a knife that will outperform commonly available relatively inexpensive commercial steel. So can you? Yes. Should you? All depends on your personal goals. A low rating on HPR doesn't mean you didn't make the bestest most awesome batch of bloom ever to grace the earth - just that in that best case example it's maybe the equivalent in performance to 80CRV2?

With that, in my opinion home made epoxy or polyster resin laminates are a 5. Lots of ways to screw it up. Never going to match true phenolic durability or stability. Not much data available other than anecdotal accounts of how others have done it. But may be the only way to get exactly what you want because it's not being offered commercially. But it is doable.
 
kuraki, that was a absolute gem of an explanation, you have a gift my friend :)
 
I've done it with west systems 105/206. I made half a dozen sheets of it with burlap, used it on a couple knives, and tossed the rest of the sheets out. Huge waste of time in my opinion. No where close to real micarta, and costs as much if not more. I've still got most of a roll of burlap and half a gallon of resin, and I won't do it again.
Finishing it sucks. Filling pores defeats the whole purpose of synthetic materials to me.
It looks cool, but that's about all it has going for it in my opinion.
 
As noted , yes you can! But??————-/-////I was privileged as a noob to spend a few Saturdays at the late Bob Loveless’s shop.. ———/—/////. I asked him about buying the equipment , oven, playing with liquid Nitrogen etc for HTing my own Stainless Steel. ATS-34 was the Kind thanks to Mr Loveless.——————————————-.. He replied, I send them to PAUL Bos for HT, Get my belts from Trugrit & Micarta from Angus Campbell for Superior work & handle products and spend my time, Designing & Making My Knives!———//// I have followed his wise words!:)
 
i have got ok outcomes with the resin i use and have had failes and many void issued that never made it out of the shop. i am really thinkning about seeing if i can find a shop that i can ship my fabric too and then have them do th erest. if not i will roll th edice and make more (im not bad at it but eveyr thing has to be just right
 
Yes people have tried it. It works to a point. Vacuum or pressure to eliminate voids and bubbles is a requirement and not 100% successful. Even Shadetree Custom Composites stuff has voids in it. Most people who do this satisfy their curiosity and move on to buying their composites.

We should establish a measuring index for evaluating the possibilities of some tasks we undertake. Call it "Halfass to Professional Rating" or HPR. A 1 to 10 scale, 1 being no matter what, in comparison to professional products or services either because of the investment or unavailability of materials, the measured task will be halfass. 10 being you can do it yourself just as well as any professional service/product.

So for example, I'm going to give Heat Treating a 9 HPR. All of the proper equipment is available to us. Reams of data is available from trial and error, testing, even actual metalurgists posting about cutlery specific heat treatment protocols. There's literally nothing, outside some proprietary schedules, that Peters or Bos or whomever does that a custom knifemaker can't do himself - the difference is simply scale of capabilities. The only reason it's not a 10 is because of the vast amount of ways people can and do screw it up.

Stabilizing wood. Let's call that a 6. You can do it at home. You can do it to a high degree of satisfaction depending on the wood type. You cannot match what K&G can do. So, serviceable.

Smelting your own steel. How about a 2. You can do it. People are making wootz and tamamamamagahne or whatever. It's a huge investment in time and labor. No one I've seen who actually does this, seems to do anything but this I'm guessing because of the time, and no matter how good they get, it'll never make a knife that will outperform commonly available relatively inexpensive commercial steel. So can you? Yes. Should you? All depends on your personal goals. A low rating on HPR doesn't mean you didn't make the bestest most awesome batch of bloom ever to grace the earth - just that in that best case example it's maybe the equivalent in performance to 80CRV2?

With that, in my opinion home made epoxy or polyster resin laminates are a 5. Lots of ways to screw it up. Never going to match true phenolic durability or stability. Not much data available other than anecdotal accounts of how others have done it. But may be the only way to get exactly what you want because it's not being offered commercially. But it is doable.


I think that you summed it up perfectly. If we are going to make high quality knives that buyers can't find from manufacturers shouldn't we use superior materials to start with? Just my opinion. I want to make the best performing AND beautiful knives that I can and I suspect that most knife makers agree with that. At least I hope so. Larry
 
guess I was born to be a contrarian. I found making homemade 'micarta' a straight forward process. It requires some patience and a certain amount of concentration laying up the material quickly within the fluid zone of the resin. I have made slabs of denim using Bondo resin (cheap, but requires careful handling when grinding). I used two 2" thick slabs of MDF and clamps and a press which produced dense, flat material to work with. I was very happy with the results. Worst part was the smell when doing the layup. Homemade gives you the opportunity to custom select the grain or alternate colors.

I believe it is worth the effort. I have purchased canvas micarta in slabs as well. I would put my denim micarta up head to head with the purchased micarta without hesitation. Maybe it was because I was attempting a reasonable size slab (6"x10") that I found it easy to produce satisfactory results. 24hr cure time. Planning more denim in the future. Might expand to other fabrics/fibers.
 
Well I'll agree home made macarta is no where near the quality of store bought, but I've had great luck making and using it for both hunting and kitchen knives. Search you tube for home made macarta and you'll find lots of good and bad info.

I made a press like in this link
but I don't use his exact method of applying the resin. I still use a disposable paint tray because it keeps the resin shallow and doesn't harden as quick as per say in a deep container. I then use a small kitchen spatula to lay in a strip of denim getting it saturated then use spatula as a squeegee to pull the material strip off the side of the paint tray. Using a roller material cutter and cutting board I cut strips 2" by 11". I can get multiple handle scale blocks from one pair of jeans in a matter of minutes.

I use 7 ounces of standard automotive fiberglass risen with 14 layers of denim and can consistently press it to my favorite 3/8" thickness. Maybe I've been just lucky but I've never experienced voids or problems with finished scales. I usually have $4 of materials in each block plus my time of making. You can buy resin in larger volumes and do even cheaper. One huge advantage is I've made several memorial knifes for families of deceased individuals out of the deceased individuals favorite jeans, flannel shirts etc and folks love having a daily use kitchen knife made with such.
 
It's funny every one is mentioning voids . We have made a bunch and never had a void one. We make ours under clamped pressure. Is it equal to commercial? No but I've tested it on personal knives and been happy with it. Not something I'd do much of but it's fun. I love orange burlap
 
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