Lbs on sebenza 25

cut it out

cut it out

Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
3,923
Just curious but I wonder why the sebenza 25 doesn't have a lock bar stabalizer?? I for one don't care but it seems to be on all frame lock knives these days. Even the umnumzaan has one. Any thoughts on it????
 
Does anyone actually overextend a lock bar? Guess you could if you put your mind to it, but why?
 
Just thought I'd throw this out there.
The Lock bar stop on the umnumzaan, and the hinderer lock bar stabilizer are two different designs all together.
CRK locks do not need to be stabilized due to their very high tolerances. The only thing the lock bar stop on the umnumzaan does is stop the lock bar from being pushed all the way out. It does not stabilize the lock in anyway like Ricks.
CRK added the lock bar stop because people were messing with the tension of the bar to make unlocking the knife easier. Doing so only made the knife unsafe.
They didn't have the same problem with Sebenzas, so they never needed to add one. But now that the Sebenza has the same lock as the umnumzaan only time will tell if we will see one or not....hopefully not!
 
I don't like LBS on my knives, at least one like a CRK. They are unnecessary to me since I take care of my knives, and I don't care for the way that they look.
 
frontline29 said:
the umnumzaan...
CRK added the lock bar stop because people were messing with the tension of the bar to make unlocking the knife easier. They didn't have the same problem with Sebenzas, so they never needed to add one. But now that the Sebenza has the same lock as the umnumzaan only time will tell if we will see one or not....hopefully not!
Click to expand...

I never could unlock my Zaan one-handed. But if it had the same large "thumb access" as my Sebbie, I doubt that it would be a problem. Guess I'd better handle a new 25 BEFORE I buy one, just to make sure. One of these days I'm going to figure out that it's high time to DREMEL (Oh No!) my Zaan to get more thumb access. If I can't use it, what good is it? I've watched countless videos on the "proper" way to operate a Zaan, but I guess I need a Charles Atlas course.
 
Sonnydaze said:
I never could unlock my Zaan one-handed. But if it had the same large "thumb access" as my Sebbie, I doubt that it would be a problem. Guess I'd better handle a new 25 BEFORE I buy one, just to make sure. One of these days I'm going to figure out that it's high time to DREMEL (Oh No!) my Zaan to get more thumb access. If I can't use it, what good is it? I've watched countless videos on the "proper" way to operate a Zaan, but I guess I need a Charles Atlas course.
Click to expand...


I have an old style Umnumzaan, with original pivot, lockbar, no LBS, and no "Idaho Made". I have no idea how anyone would have an issue with closing an Umnumzaan, but the 25 is MUCH harder to close.

Still, closing the knife (or opening it for that matter) is not an issue.
 
CRK does not use a Lock Bar Stabilizer, they use an Over travel stop.



I read in one post that Chris Reeve said they do not see many Sebenzas come back to the shop with bent lock bar issues as he does with the Zaan so that is why the Umnumzaan has it and the Sebenzas do not
 
frontline29 said:
Just thought I'd throw this out there.
The Lock bar stop on the umnumzaan, and the hinderer lock bar stabilizer are two different designs all together.
Click to expand...


They are not different designs all together, they are the same design with a small design change or implementation on the CRK.



frontline29 said:
CRK locks do not need to be stabilized due to their very high tolerances. The only thing the lock bar stop on the umnumzaan does is stop the lock bar from being pushed all the way out. It does not stabilize the lock in anyway like Ricks.
Click to expand...

Nonsense, it has nothing to do with tolerance, the geometry of the frame is what determines how easy it is to push the lockbar into the fame and close the gap.
 
Last edited:
Here is some reference to an older post I did when people were discussing the lockup on the 25. The related part I put in bold, but did not want to take things out of context.

Original thread:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1050828-Sebenza-25-lock-up


"Those who have followed the nearly 25 years that the Sebenza has been around know we continually make small improvements, alterations, advances to our knives. None of these changes are made to follow a trend, to keep up with the Jones or to tick off our customers. They are done to improve performance, safety or production. That we make a change to the Umnumzaan should not come as a surprise.

The disc has been added to the Umnumzaan to prevent the reduction of tension on the lock. Because the shape of the Umnumzaan handle is a little different than that of the Sebenza, it takes a different technique to open and close. We have found some customers are not willing to learn the difference or perhaps they don’t recognize the difference but, whatever the reason, they think it is necessary to modify the lock tension, thinking the knife will open more easily. This simply makes the knife unsafe. We have had several Umnumzaans returned to us because of lock issues – almost always the customer denies having modified the lock. We can see what has been done, and are put between a rock and a hard place as we don’t want to call out the customer for not telling the truth. The disc is a solution to prevent potentially unsafe modifications.

Please note this disc is not a lock stabilizer as it has been called in some posts. It is simply in place to prevent the lock bar from being pushed out to reduce tension. Our locks are fitted properly to very close tolerances and do not need to be stabilized. And to save further speculation, the disc is press fit into the handle. It is made of 303 stainless steel, and is sandblasted along with the rest of the handle. Because it is not titanium, the sandblasted finish looks different.

Will it change further? Quite possibly. What might these changes be? No idea at this time.

It will be a while before you see Umnumzaans other than the Wilson Startac with this disc. This has to do with our on-hand inventory of machined handles.

We are not planning to add the lock override protection disc to the Sebenza. We do not have the issue of lock modification by customers to the same degree as we do with the Umnumzaan.

Before the question is asked here is a quick reminder of the difference in how to open an Umnumzaan and a Sebenza.
Umnumzaan: slide your thumb straight forward, parallel with the handle, pushing the lug with the top center of your thumb.
Sebenza: push the lug out sideways in a sweeping motion with the side of your thumb.

Since there has been renewed discussion about Idaho Made in this thread, you might find it interesting to note that since March this year, the value of our back orders has almost quadrupled. This would indicate there are not too many concerns about the Idaho Made marking.

We appreciate your loyalty and enthusiastic conversation. We know we can't please all of the people all of the time!

Anne"

Chris Reeve said:
You will find that as you use the knife it will get easier to work with.The lock is designed like that so that if using under a stressfull situation with gloved hand the lock is not accidentally overcome,with use it will become second nature to you. Push down and out.
Click to expand...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...y-Umnumzaan!-Lock-Bar-Question?highlight=lock

further searches:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/701337-Umnumzaan-quot-lock-up-question

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...tion-for-those-who-carry-and-use-an-umnumzaan

And then the cherry on the cake from the thread: Some Words from Chris http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/730951-Some-words-from-Chris......


"The lock should engage at between 50% and 75% of travel. With the Umnumzaan, because the interface between the blade and the lock bar is a ceramic ball, it is the ball that must be at 50 – 75%. This will give the visual that the lock bar is further over than with a Sebenza."

I have yet to hear of a single lock with the ceramic ball interface that gives any problems. Since the release of the Umnumzaan, despite people complaints of it being "late" no one has had one wear out, disengage or develop any "sticky" lock. There has been only reports of people overextending the lock resulting in problems and from there the CR over extension tab/disc or whatever was applied.

So, in short. Dont mess with what works and use it.
 
marthinus said:
Here is some reference to an older post I did when people were discussing the lockup on the 25. The related part I put in bold, but did not want to take things out of context.

Original thread:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1050828-Sebenza-25-lock-up


"Those who have followed the nearly 25 years that the Sebenza has been around know we continually make small improvements, alterations, advances to our knives. None of these changes are made to follow a trend, to keep up with the Jones or to tick off our customers. They are done to improve performance, safety or production. That we make a change to the Umnumzaan should not come as a surprise.

The disc has been added to the Umnumzaan to prevent the reduction of tension on the lock. Because the shape of the Umnumzaan handle is a little different than that of the Sebenza, it takes a different technique to open and close. We have found some customers are not willing to learn the difference or perhaps they don’t recognize the difference but, whatever the reason, they think it is necessary to modify the lock tension, thinking the knife will open more easily. This simply makes the knife unsafe. We have had several Umnumzaans returned to us because of lock issues – almost always the customer denies having modified the lock. We can see what has been done, and are put between a rock and a hard place as we don’t want to call out the customer for not telling the truth. The disc is a solution to prevent potentially unsafe modifications.

Please note this disc is not a lock stabilizer as it has been called in some posts. It is simply in place to prevent the lock bar from being pushed out to reduce tension. Our locks are fitted properly to very close tolerances and do not need to be stabilized. And to save further speculation, the disc is press fit into the handle. It is made of 303 stainless steel, and is sandblasted along with the rest of the handle. Because it is not titanium, the sandblasted finish looks different.

Will it change further? Quite possibly. What might these changes be? No idea at this time.

It will be a while before you see Umnumzaans other than the Wilson Startac with this disc. This has to do with our on-hand inventory of machined handles.

We are not planning to add the lock override protection disc to the Sebenza. We do not have the issue of lock modification by customers to the same degree as we do with the Umnumzaan.

Before the question is asked here is a quick reminder of the difference in how to open an Umnumzaan and a Sebenza.
Umnumzaan: slide your thumb straight forward, parallel with the handle, pushing the lug with the top center of your thumb.
Sebenza: push the lug out sideways in a sweeping motion with the side of your thumb.

Since there has been renewed discussion about Idaho Made in this thread, you might find it interesting to note that since March this year, the value of our back orders has almost quadrupled. This would indicate there are not too many concerns about the Idaho Made marking.

We appreciate your loyalty and enthusiastic conversation. We know we can't please all of the people all of the time!

Anne"


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...y-Umnumzaan!-Lock-Bar-Question?highlight=lock

further searches:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/701337-Umnumzaan-quot-lock-up-question

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...tion-for-those-who-carry-and-use-an-umnumzaan

And then the cherry on the cake from the thread: Some Words from Chris http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/730951-Some-words-from-Chris......


"The lock should engage at between 50% and 75% of travel. With the Umnumzaan, because the interface between the blade and the lock bar is a ceramic ball, it is the ball that must be at 50 – 75%. This will give the visual that the lock bar is further over than with a Sebenza."

I have yet to hear of a single lock with the ceramic ball interface that gives any problems. Since the release of the Umnumzaan, despite people complaints of it being "late" no one has had one wear out, disengage or develop any "sticky" lock. There has been only reports of people overextending the lock resulting in problems and from there the CR over extension tab/disc or whatever was applied.

So, in short. Dont mess with what works and use it.
Click to expand...

Great Post marthinus.......this says it all, and is direct from CRK. Thanks for doing my homework for me as I remember reading this awhile back.
 
nyefmaker said:
Great Post marthinus.......this says it all, and is direct from CRK. Thanks for doing my homework for me as I remember reading this awhile back.
Click to expand...

Pleasure. I remember posting it and just had to find the thread again. Thank goodness for the search feature it is my precious :)
 
Jaytaylor said:
They are not different designs all together, they are the same design with a small design change or implementation on the CRK.





Nonsense, it has nothing to do with tolerance, the geometry of the frame is what determines how easy it is to push the lockbar into the fame and close the gap.
Click to expand...

Maybe not totally different designs as they both stop over travel of the lock bar.

Please read Marthinus post above. Straight from the man himself.
 
Last edited:
I really like the LBS on my 0550. However, the 0550 is NOT a sebenza 25. I think the lockbar tension is so strong on my 25, I would have to pry it to overextend. It "unlocks" easily, I just can't get it past what I need to close the knife without REALLY trying.
 
I wouldn't want CRK to add one to the Sebenza. I think the Sebenza is such a simple, beautiful design, and the LBS might ruin the clean look. On other knives, like my Southard, I like having the LBS, but it's a very different knife. Overall I don't think the LBS is needed on a knife like the Sebenza.
 
frontline29 said:
CRK added the lock bar stop because people were messing with the tension of the bar to make unlocking the knife easier.

They didn't have the same problem with Sebenzas, so they never needed to add one.
Click to expand...

I found this interesting. Wouldn't it have been easier just to "add" a little more thumb access to the lockbar, as does the Sebbie design?
I've had this question for a long time... Perhaps I'm missing something.
 
Sonnydaze said:
I found this interesting. Wouldn't it have been easier just to "add" a little more thumb access to the lockbar, as does the Sebbie design?
I've had this question for a long time... Perhaps I'm missing something.
Click to expand...

Yes I'm sure it would be much easier to disengage if they made the cut out larger. Personally I've never had a problem with it, but I can see where and why some people would.

I remember Chris reeve posting a comment saying something like, "The lock is designed like that so if your using the knife under a stressful situation with a gloved hand the lock is not accidentally disengaged".

I would guess because the Umnumzaan was designed to be a harder working/tougher knife then the Sebenza they made the lock bar harder to disengage accidentally during really hard use.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top