LC200N?

Dale Haskins said:
I get that everyone is always sitting in a pool of saltwater but for those of us not living at the bottom of a salt pit what is the deal with LC200N? It's tough? it rolls like dough and chips like a bag of ruffles..to me tough means it doesn't chip when I cut cardboard (no staples), and the blade doesn't roll every time I wipe the blade down with a tissue...I hear that people like it, I have a few SPY's with it, and it's really not much better than CmOV##'s. I haven't taken it to the bottom of the ocean yet, but it's being marketed as this great wonder steel, I get H1 is just the worst steel ever besides 440A but for EDC for most of the continental US, LC200N is really not a great choice for EDC in fact it's terrible for just about anything besides seriously wet and salty conditions, and then why would you really want a folder for a diving knife?
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I suggest you sit down and relax with a nice single malt bourbon and maybe a cigar. You seem unnecessarily bitter. If you don’t like the steel you can just use others. There are plenty of options. I haven’t had your experience with Lc200n, and though I’m never at the booth of the ocean, I like it in summer because I sweat profusely and get rust in the pivots of my folders. Lc200n is nice since I never to have to do anything with it.
 
DocT said:
Thanks, Joe. You were nicer than I was going to be. H1 is certainly not a terrible steel and LC200N is pretty good, as we all know. Facts. Just facts.
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I think this debate has been distracted from the real point:

Corrosion resistance has been optimized at the expense of other desirable traits.

We all know there's only so much that can be put into a steel to bring out desired traits.

The problem isn't that these steels are objectively "bad" or "good."

Their intended use window is not optimal strength, edge holding or toughness. The design of the steel put corrosion resistance first. That's fine, but in direct comparison to other steels optimized for things like edge holding or toughness.....the highly stainless steels will be less tough, less edge holding, etc.

Just a fact. Doesn't mean they are bad or good. It just means that if you don't benefit from the corrosion resistance, the primary benefit if the steel isn't benefitting the user.

Just like saying that rex-121 sucks becauseI can't beat on it like 3v.
 
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co556guy said:
I think this debate has been distracted from the real point:

Corrosion resistance has been optimized at the expense of other desirable traits.

We all know there's only so much that can be put into a steel to bring out desired traits.

The problem isn't that these steels are objectively "bad" or "good."

Their intended use window is not optimal strength, edge holding or toughness. The design of the steel put corrosion resistance first. That's fine, but in direct comparison to other steels optimized for things like edge holding or toughness.....the highly stainless steels will be less tough, less edge holding, etc.

Just a fact. Doesn't mean they are bad or good. It just means that if you don't benefit from the corrosion resistance, the primary benefit if the steel isn't benefitting the user.

Just like saying that rex-121 sucks becauseI can't beat on it like 3v.
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There are tradeoffs, but LC200N has very excellent toughness. It didn't give up toughness for corrosion resistance. And while it is limited to about 59-60 Rc, there are plenty of knives in other steels at 58-59 Rc that people aren't complaining about when it comes to deformation.
 
To the OP, how many times have you sharpened it? A fresh factory edge may not be good steel.
 
I'm gonna second that its a troll post.
I run my LC200N at 60HRC (typically 60. Sometimes 59/60 by PHT)
I've never had that issue. Its super tough. Super easy to get screaming sharp. Never chipped or rolled excessively like the OP states.

Its one of my favorite stainless steels. A bit funky to work with, by up past 220 grit it grinds like butter. And it just wants to get sharp. Great stuff. Haven't heard any complaints from my clients.
 
co556guy said:
I think this debate has been distracted from the real point:

Corrosion resistance has been optimized at the expense of other desirable traits.

We all know there's only so much that can be put into a steel to bring out desired traits.

The problem isn't that these steels are objectively "bad" or "good."

Their intended use window is not optimal strength, edge holding or toughness. The design of the steel put corrosion resistance first. That's fine, but in direct comparison to other steels optimized for things like edge holding or toughness.....the highly stainless steels will be less tough, less edge holding, etc.

Just a fact. Doesn't mean they are bad or good. It just means that if you don't benefit from the corrosion resistance, the primary benefit if the steel isn't benefitting the user.

Just like saying that rex-121 sucks becauseI can't beat on it like 3v.
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I think the real point is the OP is trolling and shouldn't be listen to at all. This is the largest knife forum on the internet and tons of people rely on this place for information, far more than just the members who post. If someone is going to come with such strong negative claims against a well regarded steel used in knives by one of the top manufacturers, best have some evidence to back it up. We will call you on any funny business all day long.
 
It's LC200N day for me, and so I will add my bit. I regret I missed this thread at the height of its activity, but yes, LC200N is a fantastic steel, in fact my favorite one. Despite the "poor edge retention", it maintains a fairly aggressive bite for me, even when the edge looks rolled in multiple places, and hones or strops back to good sharpness easily. In fact, making these knives nice and thin takes advantage of the great toughness, and combined with ease of sharpening makes it basically a joke to go from a completely rolled edge back to shaving sharp. It takes no time at all.

I love LC200N and wear it around my neck 24/7.
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Its odd to me how for some people, tool/carbon steels will rust for them immediately, yet I have never had this problem really. I live a mile from a lake, and 45 miles from Lake Michigan. Its very humid in the summers, very wet in the winter. Yet even after sitting for about 2 years my CPM-M4 GB only had like 3 tiny spots of surface rust. Granted, it was inside, but still, stored at my parents house and my dad is stingy about A/C (until the last year) so it was mostly windows open my whole life except when it was above 85 degrees.

My GB has been to Galveston, TX a few times, at my grandfather (now aunt's) camp. No real issues with salt air.

However, I am not someone that does much food processing with my knives. Occasionally a steak or chicken, but nothing acidic like fruits and vegetables. I generally reserve that for kitchen knives. I also have dry skin and do not sweat unless its 90 degrees and I'm outside. So maybe that has something to do with it.

I've yet to own an LC200n knife, though my dad has a Spyderco Aqua Salt he's taken fishing a few times. I bought it as an impulse for the steel, but I never use fixed blades so I gave it to him.

As others said, its a specialized steel. If you were someone like (can't remember his name now hooray for memory loss!) that paddle kayaks in the pacific and is constantly filleting fish in salt air/water, I can see needing a knife with it. But for a daily use steel? Meh.
 
K.O.D. said:
Its odd to me how for some people, tool/carbon steels will rust for them immediately, yet I have never had this problem really. I live a mile from a lake, and 45 miles from Lake Michigan. Its very humid in the summers, very wet in the winter. Yet even after sitting for about 2 years my CPM-M4 GB only had like 3 tiny spots of surface rust. Granted, it was inside, but still, stored at my parents house and my dad is stingy about A/C (until the last year) so it was mostly windows open my whole life except when it was above 85 degrees.

My GB has been to Galveston, TX a few times, at my grandfather (now aunt's) camp. No real issues with salt air.

However, I am not someone that does much food processing with my knives. Occasionally a steak or chicken, but nothing acidic like fruits and vegetables. I generally reserve that for kitchen knives. I also have dry skin and do not sweat unless its 90 degrees and I'm outside. So maybe that has something to do with it.

I've yet to own an LC200n knife, though my dad has a Spyderco Aqua Salt he's taken fishing a few times. I bought it as an impulse for the steel, but I never use fixed blades so I gave it to him.

As others said, its a specialized steel. If you were someone like (can't remember his name now hooray for memory loss!) that paddle kayaks in the pacific and is constantly filleting fish in salt air/water, I can see needing a knife with it. But for a daily use steel? Meh.
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I think it may have something to do with body chemistry. Some people’s sweat seems to tend to corrode knives much more than others. I can have AUS10 or 154 cm in my pocket for a few hours in the summer and it already starts forming rust spots. LC200N seems to have comparable edge retention to those steels, and far superior toughness and corrosion resistance; so it is a no-brainer for me. I wish I could carry M4 in the heat with no issues. It is one of my favorite user steels.
 
K.O.D. said:
paddle kayaks in the pacific and is constantly filleting fish
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Lance Clinton.

jstn said:
I can have AUS10 or 154 cm in my pocket for a few hours in the summer and it already starts forming rust spots. LC200N seems to have comparable edge retention to those steels, and far superior toughness and corrosion resistance; so it is a no-brainer for me.
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Exactly. And as we all know by now from reading Knifesteelnerds (or through experience), toughness allows a knife to be more stable at thinner geometries, thus improving the knife's cutting ability, and even allowing it to cut surprisingly well when the apex is no longer sharp.
 
I have used Spyderco Waterway extensively. At first 7 months as a diving knife when I was spearfishing. And last two years in the kitchen as a utility knife.

No, it does not chip and it does not roll, however, you need to get rid of the factory edge. The performance of the factory edge was disappointing for me as it did not hold the edge, rolled and chipped. Unfortunately, I did not have an access to the sharpening system in the first 7 months of use so I had to maintain the edge with a strop. After 7 months I gave it two consecutive sharpenings and dropped the angle to 17 degrees at first then to 15 degrees.

LC200N is so easy to sharpen and respond to strop amazingly. It does not hold an edge as much as the 52100 knife I have in the kitchen. My girlfriend used a waterway to carve frozen meat with all of her weight and bash the edge to the chopping board every time the edge went through the meat. After two seasons of frozen meat carving the edge was shaving hair at an entire length. No damage, only after the third frozen meat carving session it stopped shaving but still cleanly cut A4 paper. Still no damage to the edge with 15 degrees secondary bevel angle.

So, LC200N is not only about corrosion resistance but toughness with a fair amount of edge holding. No, it does not hold the edge as much as CPM154, but after few strops, it becomes as sharp as a newly sharpened knife. It is been a year since I last sharpened it and it sees daily use in the kitchen. Always stropped after a week or two.
 
LC200N is my favourite steel in a folder.

It has performed flawless regarding edge retention and from what I can remember, when Cerdric & Ada was testing it, it was up there with S30V.

So in conclusion; OP is a troll, poor at sharpening, doesn't know what the hell he is talking about or doesn't know how to use as knife. Take your pick, it might also be a combination of the four.
 
K.O.D. said:
Its odd to me how for some people, tool/carbon steels will rust for them immediately, yet I have never had this problem really. I live a mile from a lake, and 45 miles from Lake Michigan. Its very humid in the summers, very wet in the winter. Yet even after sitting for about 2 years my CPM-M4 GB only had like 3 tiny spots of surface rust. Granted, it was inside, but still, stored at my parents house and my dad is stingy about A/C (until the last year) so it was mostly windows open my whole life except when it was above 85 degrees.

My GB has been to Galveston, TX a few times, at my grandfather (now aunt's) camp. No real issues with salt air.

However, I am not someone that does much food processing with my knives. Occasionally a steak or chicken, but nothing acidic like fruits and vegetables. I generally reserve that for kitchen knives. I also have dry skin and do not sweat unless its 90 degrees and I'm outside. So maybe that has something to do with it.

I've yet to own an LC200n knife, though my dad has a Spyderco Aqua Salt he's taken fishing a few times. I bought it as an impulse for the steel, but I never use fixed blades so I gave it to him.

As others said, its a specialized steel. If you were someone like (can't remember his name now hooray for memory loss!) that paddle kayaks in the pacific and is constantly filleting fish in salt air/water, I can see needing a knife with it. But for a daily use steel? Meh.
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There's something more than just humidity or just proximity to water to it in my experience. Between school and the Marines I moved around quite a bit. In the northeast and Pennsylvania, had lots of humidity some places but didn't have much rust show up. West coast, living inland a bit and within two miles of the ocean for a number of years, I didn't have to worry about rust really either. On the other hand, friggin Knoxville, TN, it seemed like whether I carried a knife or not, every time I pulled something out if had rust spots. That place really sold me on H1.
 
kreole said:
There's something more than just humidity or just proximity to water to it in my experience. Between school and the Marines I moved around quite a bit. In the northeast and Pennsylvania, had lots of humidity some places but didn't have much rust show up. West coast, living inland a bit and within two miles of the ocean for a number of years, I didn't have to worry about rust really either. On the other hand, friggin Knoxville, TN, it seemed like whether I carried a knife or not, every time I pulled something out if had rust spots. That place really sold me on H1.
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Interesting. With the rock salt on the roads, cars rust out like nobody's business in the winter. Granted, I do keep little packets of silica desiccant (the ones I don't eat at least) in my knife case, maybe that helps.
 
Saw this post and thought I would give my 2ct worth, I have a spyderco pacific salt serrated edge, and I think I bought the wrong knife, I don’t think I like LC200n it has required more sharpening then if I bought a delica or endura in vg10, vg10 is super stainless IMO and LC200n isn’t good for my purpouses , vg10 in a spyderco edge it’s awesome and carry’s a savage edge for a long time , probably vg10 is my favorite edc , LC200n hasn’t impressed me yet
 
I’ve got a waterway on the boat. it’s lived in the boat or on the kayak for nearly three years now. It does all the generic boat cutting from gutting fish, knocking fillets off, cutting up bait, cutting line/leaders/rope etc. I‘m not overly careful with it and it’s hit hooks and steel cable many times. On every trip I use it to cut through ribs and vertebrae on large saltwater fish and never worry about edge damage from bone.

I‘ve never seen it chip. If I hit steel it will roll (minimally)but it’s never chipped. I find it easy to sharpen and will typically hold a shaving edge for a days fishing. When I do multi day trips I find by the third day the performance is suffering and it needs a touch up but it sharpens up very quickly. There is ZERO corrosion on the knife and it only sees freshwater when I bring it in the house to sharpen it. Usually it gets a wipe in sea water and put back in the sheath which is bolted to the bait board.

I‘ve got better steels for edc but for a saltwater knife I think it’s been awesome.
 
co556guy said:
Yeah, I stay away from anything called "stainless" for knives that are not kitchen knives.

I don't mind steels that are less prone to oxidation as a result of being alloys. Anything designed to be stainless though, sacrifices too much in hardness, durability, toughness for me in many cases.

I'm a carbon steel guy who likes high edge holding and stability. I'd have my folders in rex121 and my fixed blades in 3 or 4v.

If i was on a ship and exposed to salty water all the time, I might feel differently. But I don't.

My biggest problem is cutting red meat and getting a patina.
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The designation of "stainless steel" runs the gamut of material as 154CM, 440HC, S90V, and VG-10. LC200N is one of the toughest steels out there and can be made to a hardness that is generally what you see for many knives on the market (RC 59-60), with the exception of beasts like the Benchmade Adamas with CPM CruWear steel. Where LC200N fails is in edge retention.
 
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