leaf spring better than 01?

mattd

mattd

Joined
Oct 6, 2003
Messages
252
Is leaf spring steel from an El Camino a better knife steel than 01? does it h/t the same? I understand its 5160 but I'm just guessing.
 
from my limited understanding...both are very nice "first steels".

O-1: Easier to HT w/o a full forge
5160: Forgiving during the forge process
 
alot of custom knifemakers still use 0-1. Why is this? I have always heard 0-1 is a beginners steel but some prefer it for use long term. Just currious. I know I like it.
 
I don't know - I started with W-4. Seems to me that any of the basic oil hardening steels are good beginners steels. 0-1 just seems to be priced better than most. Probably because it's been made for so long that the steel mills don't have to change anything to keep producing it the same way they've produced it for half a century (or however long they've been making 0-1). Still works great as a steel so you get a great knife without having to pay for the overhead of new steels... This may be one reason why.

Other reason (more likely, imho) could be they just like it. :)

Tim

P.S. For the 90 degree flex test, I've always heard the recommendation of 5160. I'm not saying one way or another on it, just passing along what I've heard from guys who's done it.
 
O1 is nice to work with for both stock removal and forging. It can be supplied in precision ground form which is great for stock removal. It is a little stiffer to forge than 5160 and I like to make sure that I really keep it hot.

5160 makes a super tough knife...O1 may out-edge-hold it....but if I had my choice (which I do)....I use 5160 over O1 about 10:1. This is in no way saying that O1 is inferior.

As far as the heat treat...for me they are pretty similar, heat to non magnetic and quench in oil at 140f (excluding normalizing and annealing). The big difference is that I temper 5160 at 350F and O1 at 400 to 415F.

I still chuckle when I see O1 talked about as a "beginner" steel....if you start with O1 and finish with O1 30 years later, you will have made some very fine knives. Just ask the beginners at Randall:eek:
 
I feel good about doing everything myself including the H/T. I struggle with the fact that I could use better steel but would have to send it off. I have a bar of ATS-34 and 5160 and a few leaf springs but have not touched them yet. Maybe I should use the 5160 bar stock and if I like it I'll staighten the springs and use them.
 
Do those leaf springs tend to retain some memory on the curve during HT? I seem to remember something about the blades wanting to curl during the HT process of forged springs into blades. You fellas certainly know more about this than I do.
 
For knives needing toughness use 5160, for knives needing edge retention use O1 . John A - things like normalizing and annealing eliminate problems of "memory"
 
I agree with all that has been said, but just wanted to add one thing.

Never use a piece of scrap steel for a knife until it has been tested to see if it will harden. A few years back, I forged a blade from a coil spring. I went all out on it, forged in fullers, integral bolster, distal taper... Then the blasted thing would not harden, at least not to my standards, even when quenched in water. I learned it the hard way, and I'm trying to save you from the same fate.

A good quick test... forge out a bar of the stuff, about 1/4" to 3/8" square and around 6" long. File a groove around the bar somewhere near the middle. Heat to non-magnetic, then quench. Take it over to your vise, wrap it with a shop rag, clamp it down. Wear eye and/or face protection. Now, use pliers or visegrips to bend/break it. It should, if it is good steel, break like a piece of glass. If it does not break, but bends, don't use it for a blade.

O-1 is an excellent steel for smaller blades that need edge-holding over toughness. It is a pain to forge, it is very resistant to the hammer compared to 5160. It can be difficult to get a good differential hardening on O-1 because it has some tendency to air-harden, but it is possible.
 
I have heard all about the beginner steel things myself.Just my 2 cents worth here,but here goes..
01,1095,L6,5160,D2,52100 and all the others will make excelent knives if heat treated properly.In my opinion there is no one steel better for a beginner to start with than another other than cost or ease of aquiring it.The best beginner steel in my opinion is what ever you can get FREE,that way you don't worry when you make mistakes and have to pitch the steel.

I have used a lot of old leaf and coil springs when I first started and never noticed any problems after firging and normalizing,unless the steel had a crack or break in it before the forging started.This is the main thing to look for when dealing with recycled springs.I like L6 for skinners over any other carbon steel but I use 5160 now for everything,there is a reason and my philosophy for this..

I feel that I have way to much to learn about knifemaking in my life time to learn about a bunch of different steels,so I feel it is better to use one steel (what ever you choose) and learn all you can about it then make it the best it can be and perform the best you want it to,then learn all the rest of knifemaking you can.If you can do the heat treat in your sleep and hit it evertime you aren't nrvous about goofing up that latest cool blade when you quench it.

Again this is just my thoughts.
Bruce
 
I've had good success with an edge quench on O1, will skate a file on edge, but rest is still soft, I know, cuz more than once I"ve gone back and drilled the tang with relative ease(once because I forgot the holes, once because I changed the design, and on current batch, if I ever get around to drilling them, because I planned it that way, needed to HT while weather was decent, so just planned on drilling after)
 
Kevin, I hope these guys know what the quotation marks mean !!! Of course you could pick an old piece of steel that has no memory because of CRS or alzhiemers !
 
I started my first knife about a little less than a year ago....the advice from the members of BLADE FORUM was to stick to springs at first.

I built a coal forge and a heat-treating oil quench tank. I never had even one blade curve back to the shape it was on the car, so the heating in the forge MUST work.

After about 10 beginner knives I ran into a problem with the steel from the springs. There was odd little holes in the steel that I would grind down and run into...I had to toss away 2 knives.

On advice from members of Blade Forum, I have now started to use John Deere load shafts, and there have been no problems so far.
 
Thank you everyone for the advise! To anneal the spring steel can I heat it and put it between kiln bricks that I used to heat it?
 
Originally posted by mete
Kevin, I hope these guys know what the quotation marks mean !!! Of course you could pick an old piece of steel that has no memory because of CRS or alzhiemers !
Click to expand...

Hehehe I know what you mean. I have seen some steels that were so old they forgot what they were supposed to do;) I believe there are retirement homes for old steel, called scrap yards. If the worn out old stuff plays its cards right it might get reincarnated into a young virile piece of tool steel, with a memory as sharp as it's edge;)
 
Mattd...

as far as I know, the thing you have to do is to not allow the steel to cool very fast.

What I am told is that I have to heat the steel to just above non-magnetic temp, then slow cool over many hours.

I heat in my forge, then just turn off the forge and let it set in there to cool down.

As for your "kiln bricks", that sure sounds to me like it would work. Have you noticed that the bricks stay hot for a long time?

I have received advice from many pro-knife makers to do 2 full annealings ..There has also been the advice from some guys to do something called "Normalizeing" before the annealings. To Normalize all you do is heat to the right temp, then allow to air cool. (It's said to help , dont ask me how)
 
Thanks,
I have noticed the the bricks will stay hot for a couple of hours after I use them. Thats probably not long enough but the only cheap idea I have.
 
try vermiculite...


it is found in garden stores, (I have no idea why)

It is cheap, lasts forever, works like a charm...


I got a bag of vermiculite over two years ago, I made a big dish thingy for the stuff to sit in with the blade. Most of the time the blade will stay hot for about 6 hours.

Lately I have started to heat a 2nd junk blade to go into the vermiculite with the blade Im working on. The two blades help keep each other warm and I have found that even the next day the blades are still too hot to hold.


If you want to go even more crazy,,I have heard that a blade in vermiculite inside a ice cooler with a closed lid will stay warm until the 2nd comming....
 
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