Leather covered kydex sheath or maybe kydex covered leather. thoughts anyone?

Joined
Jul 9, 1999
Messages
3,316
I have recently been pondering the feasability of a leather/kydex combo sheath. Have any of you done sheaths like this? If so, I would really like to hear from you. What performance results did you acheive? My thoughts are kydex covered leather would aid in scratch prevention and silent draws, while leather covered kydex would give the aesthetic value of a leather exterior while preventing accidental punch thrus and greater retention that form fitting kydex provides. Thank you in advance for your replies!
 
THe most common of that type is leather over kydex. I have also heard of half leather and half Kydex. Kydex over leather would be awkward at best, and probably isn't recommended. As far as noisy Kydex sheaths, this is a factor of the construction, not the material itself. I pride myself on making what I consider to be VERY quiet sheaths. I made a sheath for a Polkowski Polecat (see the original and my sheath on my webpage) and the original sheath was SO loud! It made a huge snapping sound on draw and replacement. Mine are almost always silent. Just depends how it's made.

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My Custom Kydex Sheath pagehttp://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
 
Misque,
One of our forum residents, Jim March, has been modifying sheaths in this manner for a while now. He has always stated that leather appointments to kydex sheaths have made the sheaths more presentable and less intimidating.
As for the noise, I will disagree with Chiro75's oft made statement that the noise is in the design. If one is only talking about the draw or with the blade in the cavity then the design is important to the sonic characteristics. If one is talking an empty cavity, while knife is in hand, then some type of sonic camoflauge is needed. James of BladeRigger has come up with his solution called "Rigger Coat", there is the Kit Carson sheath with nylon over the sheath and Edge Works manufacturing has been developing solutions to this same problem.
I believe leather is a good solution for a sheath or holster that is custom modified by the manufacturer or end user. Also, I agree with Chiro75 that kydex over leather is probably not a good idea as you loose some of what kydex had to offer as a building material.

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>)-RadarMan-(<




[This message has been edited by RadarMan (edited 30 July 1999).]
 
It is still my contention that the majority of the noise is from the design when dealing with Kydex. Case in point: I designed a sheath for an Al Polkowski Polecat (see Al's sheath and mine on my webpage) that is silent except for a small "shick" sound when the blade is drawn. The original had a VERY loud "CLAK!" when the knife is drawn or replaced in the sheath, and the reason is that there were two eyelets close to the lip of the sheath that cause it to snap down on the knife when drawn. The reason leather sheaths are so quiet is that they don't grab a knife like this, but neither do my Kydex sheaths, so the effect is the same regardless of the means by which it is achieved. I will agree that is you require a silent sheath, or the closest thing to it, then go with leather. OTOH, snaps and other retention devices aren't all that quiet, are they?
smile.gif
My point still stands that the quietest multicarry sheath material is Kydex or Concealex, pending it has been designed properly.


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My Custom Kydex Sheath pagehttp://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
 
Misque,
As I was further pondering the points of this thread it had donned on me that I had handled a tactical holster designed by ??? as a seal team prototype. This holster was leather lined kydex. Beyond some of the design flaws this holster was rejected for, the most obvious was putting the leather in the kydex. The holster had seen many trials before I had handled it and the leather was in very poor shape. I believe now that this memory alone would convince me not to put leather in kydex.

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&gt;)-RadarMan-(&lt;


 
First oft I am curious as to the great concern of noise on the draw. For most of us it is either entirely irrelevant or overwhelmingly unlikely to be a tactical factor.

There is a small percentage of genuine operators to which stealth; to include sonic concealment, is always a concern as their missions may require that they remain undetected. Of the operators that I have dealt with, most times, they have little concern with the noise generated while drawing the knife or pistol. Reason being is that noise on the draw (or re-holster) can be limited easily by controlling the extraction. That is a slow, careful, steady pull that is practiced can be done so silently from any descent Kydex holster or sheath (even those that normally produce a solid snap and pop or even a "shick"
smile.gif
). When concealed and undetected one develops habits of making every motion careful, deliberate and without haste. To do otherwise is to eventually forfeit your advantage. Now, what they have (the G/O’s), for the most part, expressed to me as a concern is the noise that may be generated while moving through thick cover from branches or brush scraping across the outside of the sheath or holster. For this there are many solutions one of which could be leather (or some other material) lamented over the outside of the Kydex. The Key here is finding a suitable adhesive to permanently bond the two different materials together. (I am still looking for that perfect bonding material) Some have made a bag of sorts or a simple wrap and carry the sheath or holster in this manner. Also mentioned above is the “Rigger Coat” which is in my experience the best solution to date for those who are in genuine need of silent running.

What about noise if I need my weapon quickly you ask?

If you need your weapon quickly noise is no longer a factor. If you are down to the handgun or the knife and need it NOW that need came about with very little or no warning and you are most certainly in dire straits. Paramount at such a time is the ability to draw the weapon quickly, uninhibited and immediately be able to put it into action. For this a sheath or holster that grips the weapon securely but also allows for “crisp clean break” on the draw is the ticket. One evidence IMO of such a balance between security and availability in Kydex gear is the solid “snap and pop” fit. A mushy fit may produce a long drag on the draw and have less retentive capability and in the end forfeit the most important factors in tactical rigging (Speed & Security) for features that may be far less a priority in a real situation.


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“We are the pilgrims masters; we shall go, always, a little farther.”

[This message has been edited by Scott Evans (edited 01 August 1999).]
 
Scott,
The "silent draw" was really a secondary consideration and really of little consequence, kind of an afterthought, if you will. My primary concern with the kydex covered leather was in scratch resistance. I love kydex and use it more and more in my projects, however(!) the little scratches that develop on the blade after debris (sand)enters the sheath are bothersome to some people, myself included. Of course, the obvious solution is to keep the sheath clean but out in the field that really isn't in the forefront of my mind. Anyway... great advice from one and all. Thanks guys.
BTW, Scott if you find that perfect adhesive I would be VERY interested in knowing what it is! Thanks!

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If the Enemy is in range, SO ARE YOU!!
 
I'm covering my kydex sheaths with elk hide to quite them down when going though brush while bowhunting and to help to not look so milatant like when hiking and such.
 
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