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leather hardener
- Thread starter ripi
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2002
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- 1,398
http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/leather/hl.html
Read the above link completely. The traditional procedure is called cuir bouilli (literally Leather Boiled).
The paraffin alone will not harden it - As explained in the above link it's the process of heating the leather that causes the change in structure that makes leather hard.
Using the process I've made leather armor out of 12/14 oz vegtan cowhide that would stop a knife slash.
Read the above link completely. The traditional procedure is called cuir bouilli (literally Leather Boiled).
The paraffin alone will not harden it - As explained in the above link it's the process of heating the leather that causes the change in structure that makes leather hard.
Using the process I've made leather armor out of 12/14 oz vegtan cowhide that would stop a knife slash.
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2001
- Messages
- 20,978
Interesting, indeed.
The only thing I can add is that the sheaths I've made with wax are quite stiff. In fact, the knife makes a "snap" sound when it locks in place, just like it does with kydex. That's the kind of fit I need, so I've stuck with it.
Dan
The only thing I can add is that the sheaths I've made with wax are quite stiff. In fact, the knife makes a "snap" sound when it locks in place, just like it does with kydex. That's the kind of fit I need, so I've stuck with it.
Dan
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2000
- Messages
- 5,548
If you are simply trying to get your new sheath hard. Just wet it in warm water, and let dry for a day or two. The final finish is up to you. Everyone seems to have a different method.
I heat my DRY sheath in a 180-200 degree F oven for about 12-15 minutes and dip in Lexol NP, for just a few seconds, rub off the excess, let drain and put a coat of Kiwi shoe wax on them.
I heat my DRY sheath in a 180-200 degree F oven for about 12-15 minutes and dip in Lexol NP, for just a few seconds, rub off the excess, let drain and put a coat of Kiwi shoe wax on them.
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2002
- Messages
- 1,398
Ya'll are welcome.
Pendentive - like the article states it is more likely the heat than the wax alone. Lab experiments have proven that heat causes a chemical change in the leather(hide glue was originally made by boiling hide). Give it a try - you will get that same snap without the mess and danger of melting wax. As an experiment several years ago I tried just pouring melted wax over a room temperature piece of feather and let it dry. The majority of the wax scaled off and what had soaked into the leather did not appreciably stiffen it. I also know many SCA fighters who have made the wax stiffened leather armour and have gotten reports that in the sun on a hot day the wax will soften.
Aside from that - the thing I don't like about wax is that it acts like a dust/grime magnet worse than anything I have ever seen. Back when I did cabinet work I always carried a paraffin candle for lubing sticky drawers and over time as it rolled around in my tool box anything and everything crud wise stuck to it.
Mike - Wetting alone doesn't always work at least in humid country like Western Washington where I lived for 20+ years. Heat in the 120+ range was necessary to get it to stiffen.
Anyway after 30+ years of experimenting - the method I use to harden leather is to 1) case my leather - dip it in HOT tap water and then place it in a plastic bag for a couple of hours. DO NOT over saturate. I have seen way too many "Elephant Scrotum" pieces made when the piece is soaked too much and then heat applied. The shrink factor alos depends on the thickness of the leather - thinner will shrink faster and more. (a note here if you plan on doing any tooling take that into consideration - over re-wetting leather after it is tooled will cause the tooling to get all mushy looking. You can work around it but those techniques are for another time.)The leather should be damp all the way through but not sopping wet - when right the "face" will look almost dry but feel damp to the touch (best is to touch it against your cheek -after a while you get a feel for when it is right).
2) When it is at the right consistency I dry at a temperature between 120-180. The temp will vary depending on how hard you want the item (too hard and it will crack and break)and how thick your leather is (see above note).
The process by the way is not a "lost" technique. Most major holster makers use it for instance. During WWII bayonet sheaths were made by pulling the sewn leather tubes over a metal form that was then heated with an electric current. Leather covered trunk makers used/use a steam/clamp set up wherein they place a piece of leather over a form and then a dye presses down and gives it a shot of steam.
Steam is one thing I still plan on experimenting with. It might just be the best way.
A WORD OF CAUTION: One thing to remember that when heating leather it can cause it to swell and if it swells too much your nice new shiny knife may not fit in your new "swollen" sheath. To prevent this you can either make a quickly wooden or aluminum model. Youc an of course use your knife but protect it well with oil/wax.
FINAL NOTE: ONLY veg tan hides will harden with this method. And every piece of hide is different - I've had stuff that hardened with very little effort at all and other that had to be done over and over to get it right - Most likely this is due to the various tanning chemicals and how much oil the tannery used to stuff it. (A few years ago Herman Oak reportedly got their tanning liquid too "hot" and the subsequent leather was like iron - you could hardly cut it with a knife.) So experiment with scrap. Also leather dye alone can stiffen leather - it dries it out so be careful.
Pendentive - like the article states it is more likely the heat than the wax alone. Lab experiments have proven that heat causes a chemical change in the leather(hide glue was originally made by boiling hide). Give it a try - you will get that same snap without the mess and danger of melting wax. As an experiment several years ago I tried just pouring melted wax over a room temperature piece of feather and let it dry. The majority of the wax scaled off and what had soaked into the leather did not appreciably stiffen it. I also know many SCA fighters who have made the wax stiffened leather armour and have gotten reports that in the sun on a hot day the wax will soften.
Aside from that - the thing I don't like about wax is that it acts like a dust/grime magnet worse than anything I have ever seen. Back when I did cabinet work I always carried a paraffin candle for lubing sticky drawers and over time as it rolled around in my tool box anything and everything crud wise stuck to it.
Mike - Wetting alone doesn't always work at least in humid country like Western Washington where I lived for 20+ years. Heat in the 120+ range was necessary to get it to stiffen.
Anyway after 30+ years of experimenting - the method I use to harden leather is to 1) case my leather - dip it in HOT tap water and then place it in a plastic bag for a couple of hours. DO NOT over saturate. I have seen way too many "Elephant Scrotum" pieces made when the piece is soaked too much and then heat applied. The shrink factor alos depends on the thickness of the leather - thinner will shrink faster and more. (a note here if you plan on doing any tooling take that into consideration - over re-wetting leather after it is tooled will cause the tooling to get all mushy looking. You can work around it but those techniques are for another time.)The leather should be damp all the way through but not sopping wet - when right the "face" will look almost dry but feel damp to the touch (best is to touch it against your cheek -after a while you get a feel for when it is right).
2) When it is at the right consistency I dry at a temperature between 120-180. The temp will vary depending on how hard you want the item (too hard and it will crack and break)and how thick your leather is (see above note).
The process by the way is not a "lost" technique. Most major holster makers use it for instance. During WWII bayonet sheaths were made by pulling the sewn leather tubes over a metal form that was then heated with an electric current. Leather covered trunk makers used/use a steam/clamp set up wherein they place a piece of leather over a form and then a dye presses down and gives it a shot of steam.
Steam is one thing I still plan on experimenting with. It might just be the best way.
A WORD OF CAUTION: One thing to remember that when heating leather it can cause it to swell and if it swells too much your nice new shiny knife may not fit in your new "swollen" sheath. To prevent this you can either make a quickly wooden or aluminum model. Youc an of course use your knife but protect it well with oil/wax.
FINAL NOTE: ONLY veg tan hides will harden with this method. And every piece of hide is different - I've had stuff that hardened with very little effort at all and other that had to be done over and over to get it right - Most likely this is due to the various tanning chemicals and how much oil the tannery used to stuff it. (A few years ago Herman Oak reportedly got their tanning liquid too "hot" and the subsequent leather was like iron - you could hardly cut it with a knife.) So experiment with scrap. Also leather dye alone can stiffen leather - it dries it out so be careful.
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2002
- Messages
- 1,398
That's all right Dan - with the heat wave we've benn having it feels like it! Bet if I'd thrown a few out in the sun I might have even gotten some Elephant Scrotum 
(BTW How many of you knew that elephants DO NOT have scrotums? Look it up - It's one of those neat arcane facts - could win a few drinks I'll bet)
(BTW How many of you knew that elephants DO NOT have scrotums? Look it up - It's one of those neat arcane facts - could win a few drinks I'll bet)
- Joined
- Feb 15, 1999
- Messages
- 11,566
Oh!! Boy!! Now you done it Dan will be putting his head in between all the elephants legs at the zoo. 
