Leatherman Vs. Victorinox: Long term durability

klattman said:
VT, I've never tried to convince you of anything. I obviously know that you would never carry a pliers. And that you love the design of SAKs, I do too. And I wholly agree that the handle on a SAK is usually more comfortable than a tool.
VT: since you never need pliers, I feel you are overly-critical at times when it comes to said tools and while they would never work for you, they may be the perfect choice for someone else. I don't want anyone to miss out on the perfect tool because they didn't get both sides of the story...that is why I keep bugging you with my posts. :D
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If you don't like my opinions then why openly ask for them,
then disagree?

This is normally called baiting (and sometimes trolling)......

All I have ever said was FOR ME - when compared to well designed good knives a multiTool does not fit the good knife description.

Most of my posts have the caveat that YMMV -
and I fully understand there are of people who want or need to carry pliers - I have never once said not to carry pliers -
all I've said is that they don't suit me.

How is that being over-critical?

For me it's a pointless comparison since multiTools are Pliers and SAKs are knives - silly to compare them in the first place (for me).

Perhaps we should just agree to disagree.

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVT2005.cjb.net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net
http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net
 
klattman said:
Well it is considering LM was the first and still one of the best pliers-based multitools. It wasn't a shortcoming since nobody else had anything even close to it!!! You cannot fault somone for innovating a design. LMs have only been around for about 25 years.
How long did Vic take to get the modern designs that we enjoy? How many years before that was the Slip-Joint knife invented? Vic has made changes along the way too.
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Leatherman was THE first ? Let me see there were Barnetts , Seaboard , Hoffritz , ABCo , to name a few that preceeded Leatherman . These dated from the early 1900's and into the 50's . ABCo had a folding plier design similar to Leatherman before Leatherman , Bob (jooliesews) has some folding English scissors tools that came out before the Leatherman micras . Contrary to popular opinion Leatherman was not the first . If you wish to check this look in Levines guide to knives .
 
UnknownVT said:
If you don't like my opinions then why openly ask for them,
then disagree?

This is normally called baiting (and sometimes trolling)......
Click to expand...

On the contrary, I've agreed with most of what you have said and then brought up points I think are important. I thought we were having a friendly discussion.

UnknownVT said:
All I have ever said was FOR ME - when compared to well designed good knives a multiTool does not fit the good knife description.

Most of my posts have the caveat that YMMV -
and I fully understand there are of people who want or need to carry pliers - I have never once said not to carry pliers -
all I've said is that they don't suit me.

How is that being over-critical?

For me it's a pointless comparison since multiTools are Pliers and SAKs are knives - silly to compare them in the first place (for me).
Click to expand...

Well this entire forum and this thread (leatherman vs. victorinox) is to discuss which tools to use, depend on and how good they are for various applications. I thought that was precisely what we were doing here.
I agree that SAKs and Pliers-based tools can have different purposes. I have said numerous times that I like and carry both, and that having both is a serious advantage. I'm sorry if you take offense to my posts.

UnknownVT said:
Perhaps we should just agree to disagree.
Click to expand...

Fine by me. :cool:
 
lonediver said:
Leatherman was THE first ? Let me see there were Barnetts , Seaboard , Hoffritz , ABCo , to name a few that preceeded Leatherman . These dated from the early 1900's and into the 50's . ABCo had a folding plier design similar to Leatherman before Leatherman , Bob (jooliesews) has some folding English scissors tools that came out before the Leatherman micras . Contrary to popular opinion Leatherman was not the first . If you wish to check this look in Levines guide to knives .
Click to expand...

I know that LM was not _the_ first, but 99.9% of people believe it was. Why? Because it was the first to be marketed and widely available. It was also one of, if not the best, at that time. I'm sorry I wasn't careful enough when I wrote that.

Well the point was that LM has only evolved their designs for 25 years, while SAKs have been around for 100. There are problems with EVERY design, and there is ALWAYS room for improvement. That doesn't mean that the product was/is BAD though.
 
I'm one of those people that would rather not decide. I have four Victorinox Swiss Army Knives and three Leatherman Multi-Tools. That way, I have the best of both worlds, without having to choose between them. :)

GeoThorn
 
If you want the BEST of BOTH worlds, you need a SAK and a Swiss Tool. ;) :D

YMM(and probably will)V................ :p

Paul
 
PWork said:
If you want the BEST of BOTH worlds, you need a SAK and a Swiss Tool. ;) :D

YMM(and probably will)V................ :p

Paul
Click to expand...

Hmm.. or a SAK and a SOG or a SAK and a LM or a SAK and a Gerber (maybe).

Note that the common element is the SAK.

YMMBHV (Your Mileage May Be Highly Variable) ;)

Of course, if you read this thread carefully, we've done little to answer the question about durability. I'm sorry to be mostly at fault for the skewness...
I would still like to see destructive side by side tests, just for the sheer education (and fun) of it.

:D
 
After buying many multi-tools with pliers
(Gerber Pro-scout, Gerber Compact Sport, Leatherman PST, Leatherman Super Tool 200, Leatherman Crunch, SOG Power Pliers, Leatherman Squirt P4, and Victorinox Mechanic),
I have discovered that I really don't use pliers very much.

They are nice to have if you don't have access to other wrenches or pliers but I don't need them all the time.
And they did'nt justify the extra bulk and weight of a multi-tool.

What I really needed was:

Large blade
Small blade
Standard screwdriver
Phillips screwdriver
Saw
Scissors

Everything else was only something that I MIGHT use eventually.

So for me, SAKs rule.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
I like having a pair of pliers available. They come in handy. Pliers aside, I'd still cary a Leatherman, because of their diamond file. I love that file. I'm always tinkering with things, especialy knives, and that file has come in handy more times than I can count.

SAKs are great too though and they are definetly better knives. Curently, I normaly carry a Soldier and a Midnight MiniChamp. The Soldier will be replaced once the weather gets warmer and I get to work on finishing a mod.

So I guess, I'm in the both camp. Of course, that dosen't cover the other knives carried.

Leo
 
I've used the files on LM and SAKs for customizing my SOG PowerLock. :rolleyes: (Had to cut custom lock notches to add some interesting tools.)

I find that the thinner file on the vic is better for cutting _through_ metal, but the diamond _surface_ on the LM is nicer for shaping edges (the diamond is awesome for fixing torn fingernails too.) The flip-side of the LM file is a bit more agressive than the SAK as well. So, as usual, it depends on what you are doing.
 
By the way, if you open that Supertool up and fold the pliers into one side it no longer has the handle width problem, however you do lose the lock...that really doesn't matter though when comparing to a classic style SAK though since they have no lock anyway.[/QUOTE]

Even better. You don't lose the lock. I use my ST often as described here for light cutting chores, peeling fruit, for example, and the technique has nothing to do with the locking procedure.
 
Whoops, forgot the Supertool has a second lock besides the other handle getting in the way of the blade folding on your hand (like the original PSTs are) Thank you for catching that.
 
Most tools that have the knife on the _inside_ can be used that way, holding onto only one handle, and you still have a lock in most cases. (one that doesn't is the SOG PowerPLIER). The blade pivot has to be opposite the pliers (i.e doesn't work for the wave/charge configuration)

I've used my SOG PowerLOCK knife blade like that to good effect, and for the screwdrivers too.
 
The whole concept of comparing a Leatherman tool and an SAK is a comparison between apples and oranges. Now, comparison between the Leatherman and SwissTool might be more valid.

An SAK, in the majority of configurations, is basically a slip joint pocket knife with other tools included. The Leatherman and SwissTool, as has already been pointed out very well, are folding pliers with blades and other tools inside the handles.

Some years ago I received an original Leatherman Supertool as a gift. I thought it was a good tool, although there were some siginificant things I didn't like about it. I didn't care for the necessity of opening the pliers to access the other tools. I didn't like the way the handle edges dug into my hand during use. I also didn't like the placement of the knife blade or the clumping whenever attempting to use a blade or tool.

When the SwissTool came along, I bought one and found that it had none of the problems that I had found with the Leatherman Supertool. The SwissTool replaced the Leatherman for me.

As for durability, I have used and abused the SwissTool. I even took it and the Leatherman out and tried various tasks with each tool. In every case, the SwissTool won.

In an unplanned test, I used the Leatherman to cut some 14 guage steel wire. It was exceptionally difficult and once the job was done, the wire cutters were bent and the handles were no longer solid during use. After acquiring the SwissTool, I recalled the wire cutting incident and tried it with the SwissTool on the same sort of wire. I had no difficulty cutting the wire and the SwissTool didn't show any negative after effects.

Does my little incident prove that the SwissTool is more durable than the Leatherman? Maybe, in the case of the particular tools involved. Whether it proves anything about the two different tool lines is questionable.

For me, the SwissTool is more solid, wll-designed and durable tool than anything I have used or seen in the Leatherman line. I would consider it more durable by far.
 
I agree. I've never liked the LM Supertool. I only hope that the newer LMs with the larger and stronger pliers (2004 models), are better/stronger.

For strength in the pliers, I would only go with LM Crunch, SOG Powerlock, or the Swisstool (original). Coins/small nails are no problem for the cutters on the Crunch (though the cutters are short) or the SOG. I don't have an ST, but I bet it would do fine on those tests.

I think the jury is still out on the Swisstool Spirit, LM Charge etc., as far as toughness is concerned, compared to the above...without controlled, abusive tests on a variety of tools, we will never really know for sure. (Such an expensive test in both $$ and time would be hard to do, unfortunately.)
 
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