LED Flashlights

U

UnknownVT

Joined
Feb 15, 2003
Messages
2,575
Not so long ago LED flashlights were regarded as efficient and frugal on batteries, but only "bright for what they were" and used only for close tasks and emergencies.

Since the advent of the Cree 7090 XR-E - LED flashlights have surpassed the brightness of the typical 2x lithium CR123A xenon light - like the fabulous SureFure 6P, G2 and Streamlight Scorpion (the one used most in CSI).

In fact even the single AA Fenix L1D-CE is rated brighter than these 2x CR123A xenons - this is simply incredible and unheard of just a few years ago.

These comparison beamshots have had the color removed by deSaturation leaving only the luminance/brightness information - to remove any color bias/influence -
StairL1DceNiFocusDeSat.jpg
StairScorpionDesat.jpg

remember this is single AA battery light compared to a 2x CR123A lithium xenon light
- which is already brighter than a typical 3x D battery Kypton flashlight....
StairMag3Ddesat.jpg


With the more premium Q-series Crees and LumiLEDs Rebels - and using more than 3 volts - we have now surpassed even the typical 3x lithium CR123A xenon lights - at one time regarded as the tops and "ridiculously" bright.

Of course one can see that just from the specs - the now legendary SureFire 9P (3x CR123 xenon) is rated at 105 lumens - the new Fenix T1 is rated at 225 lumens, that's a factor of 214% - so should easily be brighter, even allowing for inflated specs.

Even on the P91 ultra High Output lamp the SureFire 9P reaches 200 lumens - BUT runs for all of 20 minutes on 3x CR123 -
compared to the Fenix T1's 225 lumens, rated to run for 1.5 hours - similar brightness -
but 4.5x the runtime on 2/3 the batteries.......

In fact the specs of the Fenix P3D's are -
Q5 - 215 lumens 1.8 hrs;
Rebel100 200 lumens 1.8 hrs

Just to put matters to rest -

Fenix T1 vs. SureFire 9P (3x CR123 xenon - P90 standard lamp)
T1_SF9PdeSat.jpg
T1_SF9P2UdeSat.jpg


Still not convinced?

Practical stairway shots -
Color deSaturated -
StairFenixT1deSat.jpg
StairsSF9Pdesat.jpg

StairP3DceQ5deSat.jpg
StairFenixL0Drb80LiDesat.jpg

That last shot is from a single AAA light - but using an AAA sized 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable 10440 battery.

I think these shots speak volumes.....

--
Vincent
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Great pix, UnknownVT... And, I totally agree. Even before CREEs became both widespread and affordable, I think some of the premiere ("T-bin?") Luxeons approached the brightness of good Xenons...

The only incans I own are lights I haven't gotten around to modding with dropin LED modules yet! :D
 
Great comparison shots.

I just bought a Fenix P1D-CE, P2D-CE and a P3D-CE. These lights are just amazing. Their overall brightness, throw, run times and power management circuitry put my previous "cutting edge" flashlights to shame.
 
the T1 is gonna hurt surefires sales imho, its a direct competitor, SF had better wake up and smell the coffee imho.
 
Excellent comparisons! I've carried a Fenix L1P so long it looks like it has been through a rock tumbler. It has never failed to work and I recommend them to anyone wanting a simple light using inexpensive batteries. My Surefires and Maglites are collecting dust.
Led is the only way to go.
 
It is not just the upscale lights. After seeing a friends 2AA 1 Watt Rayovac LED Light at work I got one to replace my twice as expensive 4 AA Pelican Recoil LED Light. Yes, I said Rayovac. It clips to the side of my pocket just like my knife, it still on the first set of batteries after over 6 weeks. I would normally replace the batteries on a 2 D incandescent after no more than 3 weeks and it would not be as bright or as easy to carry. If for some reason the Rayovac disappears a replacement is less than $20.
 
Thanks for the great review!
I haven't really stayed up to date with flashlight technology lately, but I've bought a Fenix P1 for my keychain because I've heard so many good things about the company. It's an impressive small light, and ever since I got it I've been thinking about adding a new tactical light to my collection. The T1 looks like it's exactly what I'm looking for. My trusty G2 just isn't among the top dogs anymore.
 
Just a comment on brightness -

100 lumens had long been the "Holy Grail" of flashlights -
but now the Cree and Rebel flashlights are easily double that -
rivalling even a typical 1,000,000 cp spotlight.

Even though I too like brighter flashlights -
I think we may have already surpassed any real practical indoors usage -
I mean, think about it -
how many do we know use a 1Mcp spotlight indoors on a regular basis?

Thank goodness these lights have lower levels -
esp the Fenix "D" (Digital) series with their Low->Medium->High

Still, we do live in interesting times :D:cool:.

--
Vincent
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i'm really kicking myself for getting a SF E2D about two months ago.

i'm going to feel really guilty buying that T1.

should have known. i carry a Fenix on my keyring, and one stays in the kitchen for general use.
 
As always, I tend to follow what Vincent says, as his comparisons and evals are top notch. I'm no longer a huge user of CR123 battery powered flashlights because I use them so much with long time durations it is not cost effective. Reading this however, I'm buying a Fenix T1 today. Wow!
Question: When they say this T1 is waterproof, is that to mean resistant or proof? I doubt I'll go underwater with it but it would be nice to know.
 
No doubt LED's make a great flashlight. What goes unmentioned sometimes today, maybe because they are getting so bright, is their original advantage - they don't burn out like incans. They are even catching up in the one area I disliked about them - tint/color rendering. Those shots are great for showing total output, but color is very important to how you see, too. For throw and great colors outdoors I'll keep some incan's, too - for now.

Surefire are still my favorite flashlights. SF just came out with an 80 lumen LED replacement for those old flashlights (and their 80 lumens means at least 80 lumens of usable light out of the flashlight), so before you throw them away you might want to look at the Surefire or some of the other great LED replacements for them - I just dropped a Malkoff Devices replacement LED lamp in my old surefire D2 and it rocks (and I get to keep that great Surefire tailcap switch). Lumens factory also makes great incan lamps for them compatible with rechargeable cells (lamps brighter than single LED's can get). And I also will pay more just because they are made in the USA, unlike those others. Not to mention a lifetime guarantee and decent service done in the US. They still make some great flashlights.

And I agree the T1 looks pretty nice, but I'll probably stick with SF (or modded SF's).
 
Broos said:
No doubt LED's make a great flashlight. What goes unmentioned sometimes today, maybe because they are getting so bright, is their original advantage - they don't burn out like incans. They are even catching up in the one area I disliked about them - tint/color rendering. Those shots are great for showing total output, but color is very important to how you see, too. For throw and great colors outdoors I'll keep some incan's, too - for now.
Click to expand...

Although a yellow biassed light does show advantages - especially at lower (inadequate) levels -
it is due to our conditioning - we spend a good proportion of our lives under incand/artificial lighting. Not only that - through human evolution since our ancesters used fire/candles for lighting - and those are very yellow - our brains compensate and adjust for this yellow bias.

Regardless, if we see better in the dark under yellow - we simply see better.

However there are lots of situations where a yellow'ish light is not so good - eg: distinguishing colors - yellow lines on a map, differentiating between shades of colors.

Here are the color versions of the same stairway shots -
StairFenixT1.jpg
StairsSF9P.jpg

StairP3DceQ5.jpg
StairFenixL0Drb80Li.jpg


~60-80 lumen lights
Fenix L1D-CE vs. Streamlight Scorpion vs. Mag 3D
StairL1DceNiFocus.jpg
StairScorpion.jpg

StairMag3D.jpg


Look specifically at the tiny test target to the right of the door knob -
especially where it's clear in the Scorpion shot for incand, and the L0Drb80 shot for LED....

This is the test target under balanced lighting conditions -
PatersonTestTarget.jpg


Not surprisingly the yellow bias in the test shots for incands is Huge.
--
Vincent
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I agree the newer LEDs are great. As was mentioned, I also bought a new Rayovac - 3 watt, and it's not only replaced my old G2, I gave it away. Lights are about an appropriate amount of lumens, but also about the power source. I run the 3 watt on rechargable AA's, not expensive hard to find 123's.

As the technology trickles down, it will get even better.
 
tirod3 said:
Lights are about an appropriate amount of lumens, but also about the power source. I run the 3 watt on rechargable AA's, not expensive hard to find 123's.
As the technology trickles down, it will get even better.
Click to expand...

It is already here.

Fenix have their L2D series - the L2D-CE (Cree 135 lumens) and L2D-RB100 (LumiLEDs Rebel 100 - 175 lumens) - runs on 2x AA batteries -
StairL2DCENi.jpg



Fenix P2Dce Comparison Review

Fenix L2D-RB100 Comparison Review

L2Drb100_L2Dce.jpg
L2Drb100_L2Dce2U.jpg

seems real close, but the RB100 has a larger overall beam circle so it is probably brighter in total output lumens.
I like both tints - perhaps with a slight preference for the Rebel. The RB100 has a much smoother beam - the CE betrays its notorious dark halo (this CE is an older version with smooth reflector, and the P4 Cree).

There is also the single AA Fenix L1Dce (and L1D-RB80) that's rated to reach 90 lumens on Turbo/max mode -
already mentioned in the opening post, and shown to be brighter than the 2x lithium CR123 xenon lights (like Streamlight Scorpion, SureFire 6P, G2), and Mag 3D

Fenix L1D-CE Comparison Review

I did my tests using NiMH rechargeable batteries......

--
Vincent
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UnknownVT said:
It is already here.

Fenix have their L2D series - the L2D-CE (Cree 135 lumens) and L2D-RB100 (LumiLEDs Rebel 100 - 175 lumens) - runs on 2x AA batteries -
Click to expand...

:thumbup::thumbup: +1 on Fenix L2D CE Q5 - Just got one of these - Awesome flashlight and good value for money:D:thumbup::thumbup:
 
I sound like a broken record but here goes. Vincent. It's not just about brightness but about CRI. White light sucks for seeing in the dark. A xenon light of 1/2 the technical brightness is still easier to use for actually navigating or finding things. Hate to sound like a troll but can someone wake me back up when the Rebel Warm series end up in Fenix lights? Thanks zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Happy Holidays all!
 
Moodino said:
I sound like a broken record but here goes. Vincent. It's not just about brightness but about CRI. White light sucks for seeing in the dark. A xenon light of 1/2 the technical brightness is still easier to use for actually navigating or finding things. Hate to sound like a troll but can someone wake me back up when the Rebel Warm series end up in Fenix lights? Thanks zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Happy Holidays all!
Click to expand...

I absoutely agree about lights not being just about brightness -
I already said that quite explicitly in my Post #10 (link)

- and I too am a believer in yellow biassed lights -
BUT did you actually read my Post #14 (link) in this thread above?

EDIT to ADD -
for a fuller understanding of CRI - Color-Rendering Index

"An incandescent lamp, virtually by definition, has a Color Rendering Index (CRI) close to 100. This does not mean that an incandescent lamp is a perfect color rendering light source. It is not. It is very weak in blue, as anyone who has tried to sort out navy blues, royal blues and black under low levels of incandescent lighting. On the other hand, outdoor north sky daylight at 7500K is weak in red, so it isn't a "perfect" color rendering source either. Yet, it also has a CRI of 100 by definition.

CRI is useful in specifying color if it is used within its limitations. Originally, CRI was developed to compare continuous spectrum sources whose CRI's were above 90 because below 90 it is possible to have two sources with the same CRI, but which render color very differently. At the same time, the colors lighted by sources whose CRI's differ by 5 points or more may look the same. Colors viewed under sources with line spectra such as mercury, GE Multi-Vapor® metal halide or Lucalox® high pressure sodium lamps, may actually look better than their CRI would indicate. However, some exotic fluorescent lamp colors may have very high CRI's, while substantially distorting some particular object color.

Technically, CRI's can only be compared for sources that have the same Color Temperatures. However, as a general rule "The Higher The Better"; light sources with high (80-100) CRI's tend to make people and things look better than light sources with lower CRI's."

ref: About Light: Color Rendering

The case of xenon vs. LEDs is exactly as stated in the first paragraph of the quote - although theoretically the incand xenon should be CRI=100 (perfect) - anyone with eyes knows there are huge difficulties seeing yellow on white (lines on maps) and being able to distinguish colors that contain a lot of blue.
Despite the (much) lower CRI (~60-70) - white LEDs do not have as much problems......

So is CRI=100 better than CRI=65?


--
Vincent
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I know that there is a great difference to my eye between a bluish LED light and an incan outdoors - I can see more better because of the better colors. And to my eye my Surefire incan looks white (they get yellow when the batteries start to fade), with most of my LED's appearing blue and cold in comparison. I'm not trying to be contentious, but just want to point out that there is still a place for incans, especially for outdoor use when good color rendering and long throw are important to the user.

I have a great throwing LED light - a maglight with a malkoff drop-in, and it does have excellent throw, but to my eye the bluish cold tint of it does not render colors as well as a powerful long throwing incan.

While there are undoubtably reasons why this is, and it may be somewhat subjective, to my eye the weakness of LED's today is color rendering, and throw (a single LED cannot match a powerful incan lamp yet).

This is best decided for yourself - take the LED and that old Surefire outside, and point it at a tree or woods 60 yards away, and see for yourself which one you think is best. Some may prefer the LED, but I think most people would prefer the incan for that use.

Regardless of this issue, those shots are great, and thanks for posting them!
 
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