Legal Woes... (gravity knife)

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Bluesock943

Joined
Mar 3, 2005
Messages
3
Hello,

I'm new here. Stumbled upon this forum in a google search. I was hoping to get some advice possibly pertaining to a legal problem that I've got.

A couple weeks ago I was stopped and detained by the friendly employees of the NYC police department. Without going into a lot of detail, they were upset that I wasn't in possession of any narcotics yet I happened to have my Spyderco Renegade in my pocket. They decided that it fell under the definition of a "gravity knife" and thus I spent several hours behind bars. Nevermind that I am a self-employeed furniture maker and that a knife is as much of a tool to me as a saw or hammer..

I was hoping that perhaps people here might be able to give advice on getting information that disputes the police "definition" of a gravity knife versus what I am to understand is a folding knife. Basically hoping to get any additional information before I head off to court.

Thank you.


-Markus
 
considering that even balisongs are not considered gravity knives, your local police are full of ****. get any competent lawyer and it wouldn't hold up in court.

this is why cops annoy me now (no offense to anyone here who happens to be an LEO). It used to be a profession of honor and respect, but more and more (especially NYC) it's turned into a damned public works project and they're starting to hire all the rejects.
 
I guess the REAL question is ... if you're nailed on the moon with a gravity knife, is it a felony or not?
 
Yeah, sometimes is seems like cops just get bored and decide to pick on someone just for fun. Something similar happened to me jus 3 months ago. I didnt go to jail, just a ticket, but taking off work to come into court is still a real drag. I pled not guilty and the judge let me go on the spot, no trial or nothing. Same thing will probably happen to you assuming you don't have a record. Did the cop take the knife? Cause if he did its probably gone for good.
 
I'd like to hear both sides of the story, but maybe I'm biased because my father was a police officer for 30 years. If your side is correct then it's a load of BS, but there isn't a whole lot you can do about it, especially in NYC. These things happen often.
 
What you need is competent legal advice from a lawyer down there. The advice you've been given so far is probably right on, but do you want to bet your future on it? I wouldn't - no disrespect intended.
 
Found this doing a quick search for definition of gravity knives...

http://www.mcacp.org/issue53.htm

don't know if it'll help much, it pertains to butterfly knives as an example, but something intresting of note early on...

"knife requires manual locking and thus does not come within the definition of "gravity knife"

hope it helps...
 
Good link, Sunrunner. Here is the NY definition given to a gravity knife:

A "gravity knife," one of the proscribed objects, is defined as: ". . . any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device." Penal Law § 265.00(5).

Does this mean a BM Axis lock fits the definition of a gravity knife? It is locked in place by means of a spring, and can be swung open with the application of centrifugal force (even without holding back the lock or flicking the thumbstud).

Thoughts?
 
Somewhere, I think in this forum is the link to "the expert" on knife law... anyhow, if I were you I sould be getting a lawyer quickly, you may want to repost in another area of this board for a referral...
 
If you can afford it, ask your lawyer to speak to Bernard Levine. He does a lot of "expert witness" type stuff. The AKTI should be able to help some also.
 
To sum it up: If your knife can be "flicked" out, there's precious little you can do. The NYPD chooses to include any knife that can be inertially opened under the blanket term "gravity knife." According to other friends, including one who has basically had to reinvent his store (he sold knives), the NYC justice system, seeking to a) gain favorable public opinion by increasing arrests b) minimize risks to its own officers by finding ways to make arrests without placing said officers in actual danger, has subtly turned the carry of almost any knife into a crime.

I'm sorry, but with judges and police in this city the way that they are, I don't think you'll get out of this scot-free. A good lawyer may be able to get you a more tolerable judgment. Or you might actually encounter some sane, reasonable people. Either way, I'm very sorry to hear about your troubles. Best of luck to you.
 
Contact http://akti.org/ and see if they can steer you towards proper legal help in NYC. I recall that several years ago a whole slew of knife stores were "raided" for carrying typical one-handed folders in your town.
 
Nelsonmc,

Story goes like this.. I was walking down the street when I hear police yelling from behind me to stop. One officer comes up and asks me about the "buldge" in my pocket. I've been assured by several police officers that this is standard practice when they want to stop and question someone. What this does is give them reason to question someone whom they have "profiled." I've been told this by current and retired police officers alike. Mind you, there was no buldge in my pocket and even if there had been, the shirt I was wearing was fell past my pockets anyway. Not to mention, they came from behind me. There was no way they could have seen any buldge in my pocket. Given my looks, scruffy white guy with dreadlocks, they decided that I must have drugs on me. Ironically, I am one of the most conservative people I know (maybe not saying much in NYC). But I've never even smoked a cigarette let alone do any drugs. Still, these two officers were way out of line. They stopped me two doors from where my shop is. They certainly could have validated my story and come to see that I have a fully equipped woodshop and that I am a fairly responsible citizen not out on any stabbing sprees. Usually I am one to respect law enforcement, but this went way beyond what was called for. There is more to it, but that is the basic of it. I realize that being a cop in New York City is a pretty thankless job, but when the police treat law abiding citizens the way that I was treated, it's akin to shooting oneself in the foot. I now have nothing but utter disdain for the police here. I, nor any of my friends or family, will ever respect or help the police here.

Sunrunner,

Thanks for the link. I had actually already seen that one. I do have an attorney and he seems pretty competent. He used to be a DA in the Bronx. He's already been in touch with the DA and is hoping to have the case dismissed before we even go to court. We'll see though as the DA is waiting to here from the arresting officers.. No doubt they will assure him that it was, indeed, a gravity knife.

Lostmymirth

Yeah, the knife is gone. I was told by another officer that if my case is dismissed that I can petition to have it returned to me. I have no idea if that will really happen. First things first, beat the criminal charge and have my record cleared.

Thanks for all the replies.

-Markus
 
RobbW said:
Good link, Sunrunner. Here is the NY definition given to a gravity knife:

....application of centrifugal force which, when released...
Click to expand...

So if I JB-weld shut my Old Timer, and strap it to the tip of the rotor blade on my helicopter, and spool that sucker up to full RPM, It will be considered a gravity knife when it flips open? Wait.... that would throw the rotor head into such an imbalance it would cause "Blue Blade".... One blade blue that way, and the other blade blue the other way.
 
Some links for you.

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/sta-law.htm

http://www.knife-expert.com/

I'd also shoot Spyderco an e-mail. I can't see how it would be good for them to have there knives classified as illegal.

Good news you have some case law on your side.

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/ny.txt

New York Case Law:
- Knife... was not a "gravity knife"... even though blade of
knife could be released from its sheath by flick of the
wrist; in order to lock blade of knife in open position,
two additional steps were required... (1989).

Err now that I read that it might not apply.

Good luck.
 
I hope I'm wrong here but from looking up the specs for the Renegade at http://www.ted.tweakdsl.nl/spyderco/spyderco.html, the knife has a 4" blade. According to NYC knife laws http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/ny.txt, a blade of 4" or larger is prohibited for carry. I sincerely hope they're not sticklers and drop the case, especially since you use the knife for work related purposes. The best thing to do is have 2 knives, one for work and one for home. That way you won't have to run the risk of getting in trouble through random searches.

Good luck to you.
 
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