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Les: Comparison of LDC-107 vs Coldfire
- Thread starter DDS
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 3,148
Now, this isnt exactly fair.
You are asking Les to compare a knife that HE
sells, and a knife that another purveyor sells. I bet I know which one he likes best....
I have handled them both, they are both great knives, the differences are cosmetic.
Broadwell is a great maker.
You are asking Les to compare a knife that HE
sells, and a knife that another purveyor sells. I bet I know which one he likes best....
I have handled them both, they are both great knives, the differences are cosmetic.
Broadwell is a great maker.
Les Robertson
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
DDS,
First, the Cold Fire is actually $45.00 more than the LDC-107. The question you should be asking is why is that knife $45.00 more.
Personally, I feel the LDC-107 is a better design, of course I was involved in the design. I think that overall the LDC 107 has a better overall design for both utility as well as personal defense.
That aside, lets look at the collectable aspect.
LDC is now a well known and respected brand for collectable tactical knives. If you need further proof of this I direct your edition to the cover of the May issue of Tactical Knives. The forth series is in the works, featuring Bob Terzuola, George Herron, Walter Brend, RJ Martin and Al Polkowski. These makers of substantial reputation as custom makers are not signing up for LDC because it's a dog!
On the other side of the coin, Dave Broadwell announced today that the Cold Fire project will not be completed. I understand the parameters involved, but choose not to discuss it. Suffice to say, Dave Lewis is going to have another maker complete the Cold Fires. This maker has no where near the talent that Dave Broadwell does.
So to answer your question, yes if the Classic Cutlery charged $100 less than the the LDC 107. This would be 30% off the retail price of Cold Fire. I can tell you from experience, Classic Cutlery would lose money on the Cold Fire selling them at that price. So obviously, the premis of your question is moot.
Additionally, in light of recent events, I don't think the Cold Fire will hold it's value.
The LDC 107's on the other hand are now selling in the range of the Cold Fire!
As Anthony stated, I am a little biased. But I hope I have also given you some facts to think about.
------------------
Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
First, the Cold Fire is actually $45.00 more than the LDC-107. The question you should be asking is why is that knife $45.00 more.
Personally, I feel the LDC-107 is a better design, of course I was involved in the design. I think that overall the LDC 107 has a better overall design for both utility as well as personal defense.
That aside, lets look at the collectable aspect.
LDC is now a well known and respected brand for collectable tactical knives. If you need further proof of this I direct your edition to the cover of the May issue of Tactical Knives. The forth series is in the works, featuring Bob Terzuola, George Herron, Walter Brend, RJ Martin and Al Polkowski. These makers of substantial reputation as custom makers are not signing up for LDC because it's a dog!
On the other side of the coin, Dave Broadwell announced today that the Cold Fire project will not be completed. I understand the parameters involved, but choose not to discuss it. Suffice to say, Dave Lewis is going to have another maker complete the Cold Fires. This maker has no where near the talent that Dave Broadwell does.
So to answer your question, yes if the Classic Cutlery charged $100 less than the the LDC 107. This would be 30% off the retail price of Cold Fire. I can tell you from experience, Classic Cutlery would lose money on the Cold Fire selling them at that price. So obviously, the premis of your question is moot.
Additionally, in light of recent events, I don't think the Cold Fire will hold it's value.
The LDC 107's on the other hand are now selling in the range of the Cold Fire!
As Anthony stated, I am a little biased. But I hope I have also given you some facts to think about.
------------------
Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
Les: Thank you for your reply and logical response. I was never in question about the collectability of the LDC series. I had just read in the past a thorough review of the Coldfire project and the design thoughts that Mr. Broadwell considered. I'm sure as Anthony stated, that they are both great knives but the edge would be for the LDC as far as collectabilty.If the Coldfire were to be purchased at a better price it would be the better "user" piece for utility as it was designed.
Thanks again for your viewpoint.
DDS
Thanks again for your viewpoint.
DDS
Les,
I saw Dave Lewis last weekend and he made no mention of any problems with Broadwell not finishing the knife run. Then again I wouldn't expect him to. He wanted to trade for some guns.
In light of what you said, do you think that the ColdFire knives that are already done by Broadwell will rise in collectability?
And if you could, who is going to finish the run? (if you don't want to say,I understand).
I saw Dave Lewis last weekend and he made no mention of any problems with Broadwell not finishing the knife run. Then again I wouldn't expect him to. He wanted to trade for some guns.
In light of what you said, do you think that the ColdFire knives that are already done by Broadwell will rise in collectability?
And if you could, who is going to finish the run? (if you don't want to say,I understand).
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 2,337
Les
Dave is from my neck of the woods and see him at the local shows but he still doesn't have his website up.I know his in house maker has been Broadwell for the last few years. Just curious why you don't think they will hold there value since I noticed that you now rank his FB up with Brend.
Bob
Dave is from my neck of the woods and see him at the local shows but he still doesn't have his website up.I know his in house maker has been Broadwell for the last few years. Just curious why you don't think they will hold there value since I noticed that you now rank his FB up with Brend.
Bob
Les Robertson
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
Jailhack,
I suggest if you have any questions concerning the Cold Fire you talk directly with Dave Lewis.
Strider,
First, I think the knife was overpriced to begin with. This, I feel will hurt it's collectablity.
Secondly, this is not a comment on the quality. Everything Dave does is excellent.
Third, Dave is going to have the knives finished by another maker. He will then have to explain with every sale what happened and why he is no longer using Broadwell. While Rob Davidson is a very good knife maker, his abilites are not on a par with David Broadwell. So maybe the Broadwell Cold Fires will become very sought after, only time will tell.
If the reason someone was buying the Cold Fire was because David Broadwell was making the knife, then this will impact in a negative way on the sales of furture Cold Fires.
Another challange that Dave Lewis will face, is that I will be introducing the MLR Folder by Dave Broadwell at the Blade Show. This knife will come standard with a 420V blade, titanium and Carbon Fiber scales. The retail will be in the range of $550-$575. The final price is going to be dependant on the costs of all the materials and how long it takes David to work the 420V.
So now DDS the question becomes, is the Cold Fire not being made by David Broadwell anymore at $495 in ATS-34 and G-10 a better deal than a new folder from David Broadwell in 420V and Carbon Fiber, with a price tag of only $55 more?
This knife is $105 more than the LDC 107, and because of the material involved, the price difference is justified.
Pricing is always a difficult thing. Some guess, some look at where the market is. I personally (and Im sure most of the full time makers), spend time doing cost analysis of each material involved, add the makers shop time and then the profit needed to cover shipping, advertising, etc. If I dont feel the knife warrants the price, I dont have the knife made.
Anyway, Im starting to steer of course. Guys if you like the Cold Fire buy it. Dave Lewis is a good guy and a very knowledgeable custom knife person.
I wish him the best with his new venture.
------------------
Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
I suggest if you have any questions concerning the Cold Fire you talk directly with Dave Lewis.
Strider,
First, I think the knife was overpriced to begin with. This, I feel will hurt it's collectablity.
Secondly, this is not a comment on the quality. Everything Dave does is excellent.
Third, Dave is going to have the knives finished by another maker. He will then have to explain with every sale what happened and why he is no longer using Broadwell. While Rob Davidson is a very good knife maker, his abilites are not on a par with David Broadwell. So maybe the Broadwell Cold Fires will become very sought after, only time will tell.
If the reason someone was buying the Cold Fire was because David Broadwell was making the knife, then this will impact in a negative way on the sales of furture Cold Fires.
Another challange that Dave Lewis will face, is that I will be introducing the MLR Folder by Dave Broadwell at the Blade Show. This knife will come standard with a 420V blade, titanium and Carbon Fiber scales. The retail will be in the range of $550-$575. The final price is going to be dependant on the costs of all the materials and how long it takes David to work the 420V.
So now DDS the question becomes, is the Cold Fire not being made by David Broadwell anymore at $495 in ATS-34 and G-10 a better deal than a new folder from David Broadwell in 420V and Carbon Fiber, with a price tag of only $55 more?
This knife is $105 more than the LDC 107, and because of the material involved, the price difference is justified.
Pricing is always a difficult thing. Some guess, some look at where the market is. I personally (and Im sure most of the full time makers), spend time doing cost analysis of each material involved, add the makers shop time and then the profit needed to cover shipping, advertising, etc. If I dont feel the knife warrants the price, I dont have the knife made.
Anyway, Im starting to steer of course. Guys if you like the Cold Fire buy it. Dave Lewis is a good guy and a very knowledgeable custom knife person.
I wish him the best with his new venture.
------------------
Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
Les Robertson
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
DDS,
Now I understand why you asked the question. It seems Dave Lewis at Classic Cutlery is "dumping" his remainig Cold Fires at the price of $350.00. Im sure the people who paid the full price of $495.00 are pretty happy with that.
You neglected to tell me why you asked the question. But based on this, yes I would buy any tac folder made by Dave Broadwell for $350.00.
As for me, Im going to wait until they get down to $275 and buy up the rest of his inventory!
------------------
Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
Now I understand why you asked the question. It seems Dave Lewis at Classic Cutlery is "dumping" his remainig Cold Fires at the price of $350.00. Im sure the people who paid the full price of $495.00 are pretty happy with that.
You neglected to tell me why you asked the question. But based on this, yes I would buy any tac folder made by Dave Broadwell for $350.00.
As for me, Im going to wait until they get down to $275 and buy up the rest of his inventory!
------------------
Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 2,337
Les
Thanks for the in depth reply.It's always good to get a perspective from someone directly involved in the knife business.Seems like there is all sorts of crazy &*it happening behind the scenes . I guess when it comes right down to it knives are like any other business LOL
Bob
Thanks for the in depth reply.It's always good to get a perspective from someone directly involved in the knife business.Seems like there is all sorts of crazy &*it happening behind the scenes . I guess when it comes right down to it knives are like any other business LOL
Bob
Les Robertson
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
Hi Bob,
Yes, for those of us who are full time knife types, it is business. However, that does not mean we cannot be passionate and love our job.
The thing that bothers me most about custom knives, is the amount of hype that surrounds some of the knives. Although, this is more prone to exsist on the factory side of the house. As it is imperative they turn out at least a half a dozen new models every year. Which is why so many factories look to the custom makers to do their R&D for them.
If it were not for custom knives, the factories would be 10 years behind where they are right now. As it is the custom makers who usually pioneer new materials and techniques.
Yes, custom knives are a business for many of us. However, this does not decrease our love or desire to produce or sell the finest product available for the money.
------------------
Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
Yes, for those of us who are full time knife types, it is business. However, that does not mean we cannot be passionate and love our job.
The thing that bothers me most about custom knives, is the amount of hype that surrounds some of the knives. Although, this is more prone to exsist on the factory side of the house. As it is imperative they turn out at least a half a dozen new models every year. Which is why so many factories look to the custom makers to do their R&D for them.
If it were not for custom knives, the factories would be 10 years behind where they are right now. As it is the custom makers who usually pioneer new materials and techniques.
Yes, custom knives are a business for many of us. However, this does not decrease our love or desire to produce or sell the finest product available for the money.
------------------
Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
- Joined
- Dec 14, 1998
- Messages
- 4,870
Les is right about the knive companies being behind 10 years without custom makers.
Most all of the new ideas either with or without the custom makers name on the knife come from custom makers (SMILE). I think the colaborations in the industry now days are great.
It causes the custom makers to push for fresh and new ideas. Five years ago this practice (colaborations) was very little at most. I feel it drives the knife industry (custom and factory) to develope better knives and newer designs that collectors and users want.
------------------
Web Site At www.infinet.com/~browzer/bldesmth.html
Take a look!!!
Most all of the new ideas either with or without the custom makers name on the knife come from custom makers (SMILE). I think the colaborations in the industry now days are great.
It causes the custom makers to push for fresh and new ideas. Five years ago this practice (colaborations) was very little at most. I feel it drives the knife industry (custom and factory) to develope better knives and newer designs that collectors and users want.
------------------
Web Site At www.infinet.com/~browzer/bldesmth.html
Take a look!!!