Let's be fair.....

B

Bill Marsh

Joined
Mar 26, 2002
Messages
1,861
I did not make this up, just passing it along

"To ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent On killing us, airport screeners will not be allowed to profile people. They will continue random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, Secret Service agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips and Medal of Honor winning former Governors.

Let's pause a moment and take the following test.

In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:
a. Olga Corbutt
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwartzeneger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.


In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old
American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard by:
a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver was
murdered by:
a. Captain Kid
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid who had a few sticks of dynamite left over from the train job
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems
c. The World Wrestling Federation to promote its next villain: "Mustapha the Merciless"
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
>
On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed and thousands of people were killed by:
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
a. Bonny and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

Nope, no patterns anywhere to justify profiling!
 
Profiling works. Everybody uses it everywhere. It's sad that the innocent must be embarrassed and inconvenienced because of the guilty but that's the way of life.

If you can pass for Osama Bin Laden's twin brother and are wearing a dirty turban and carrying an AK47 and laughing and pointing at the crater while standing on the observation deck at the crater that used to be the WTC you can count on trouble -- even if you were born in Iowa and earned the Medal of Honor while serving in the US military.
 
Nail em' all to the wall! Muslim or not a terrorist is a terrorist!!!!:mad: Kill em' all the little *asterds!!!!!:mad:
 
I have never taken a position in this forum that would result in creating controversy but in this case, I cannot remain silent.

While I agree with the principle of profiling, let's keep things in perspective.

- The first thing I heard when I took a class on Terrorism is that: "Someone's terrorist is always somebody else freedom fighter".

- 80% of the world's refugee’s population is Palestinian. How come? Does anybody care?

- The Irgun group and the Stern Gang, based on the current definition of terrorism, were all terrorist groups ===> Should we therefore apply profiling to every Jew in America?

I served in Lebanon in 1982, 1983 and 1984 (FINUL) and had the unfortunate privilege to witness first hand how great of a warrior Mr. Sharon is. This man is a butcher. Period. Not a hero. He is a coward who at the time hid behind the SLA (South Lebanese Army) and the Phalangists to massacre innocent Palestinian civilians (Massacre of Sabra and Shatila). I entered the camps less than 48 Hours after the massacre took place and have seen enough horror to last me 3 lifetimes. To see Sharon portrayed as a hero on US TV makes me vomit. For those who want to challenge my position, feel free to visit this site: www.ummah.net/unity/sabra/gallery/ and you will see for yourself. The United Nations Security Council condemned the massacre with Resolution 521 (19 September 1982). This condemnation was followed by a 16 December 1982 General Assembly resolution qualifying the massacre as an "act of genocide." Very few people are aware that there is currently a complaint against Sharon filed in a Belgium court and that to date nothing has happened because of US pressure. Furthermore, while we are quick to bring a Milosevic to justice, our own government has again repeatedly pressured the International Tribunal to reject any action against Mr. Sharon and/or the State of Israel under the very same laws that have been used to protect the Jews and obtain reparation for them for the genocide they suffered during WWII.

Now let's talk about Mr. Arafat: Same Garbage. During my tour of duty, the UN was tasked to evacuate the PLO from Beyrouth and I also have first hand knowledge of how much of a coward this one is. On the top of that, using 12 years-old or women to conduct bombings does nothing to earn my respect.

Fact is on 9/11 innocent people paid the price for the incompetent, arrogant and one-sided US policy in regards to the Middle-East situation.[I will be more than happy to clarify my position on this policy]. Why do we have that policy? Because our politicians court the Jewish votes every opportunity they have. The Jewish population in America is only 6% yet if you ask any one in the streets, they usually guess 30%. Do I have a problem because the Jewish lobby is so effective? No, the Jews have suffered enough through History that they now take a more active approach. I blame our politicians FOR FAILING TO REMAIN OBJECTIVE!

Yes, Israel has a right to exist but I have seen again, first hand the work of Tsahal and the Israelis have little to learn from the Nazis. Short of organizing a "Final solution" they have used every trick the Nazis used against them during WWII. Again, I served 3 tours in Lebanon and I am talking from first hand knowledge.

No, I do not support anyone in this conflict. I am no more Anti-Semite that I am Pro-Palestinian. Fact is I have had for the last 20 years, the fragment of a Palestinian bullet 1.5' from my spine to remind me that no one is free of sins in this conflict. According to the surgeon at the time, I was never to walk again. So much for keeping the peace between fighting factions.

One thing that does bother me is the fact that now in America Muslim = Terrorist. That is far from the truth. I do not wish to start a political discussion in a forum that is not meant to be for that. I wish that we all stuck to knives and jokes but the simplification made about Muslims will only result in promoting the very lack of tolerance that exist in the Middle-East today. I can go back in History and give every bit of the same example, this time with the Christians for the same exactions they performed. Does this mean we also have to profile Christians based on their terrorist actions during the Crusades or the Inquisition?

Finally, this is not a personal attack against Bill Marsh. I have had the pleasure to read Bill before and he is every bit of a gentleman. What I am addressing here today, is the narrow views that I witness everyday outside of this forum. Bill posted something that is currently circulating through the Web. Since this thread is titled "let's be fair... well, let's be fair then!".

Anyone who agrees or disagree is free to contact me directly (my email is in my profile). I do not wish to clutter this site with political discussions. I am open for debate as long as the fight is fair and stays above the belt. In on the other hand, if you prefer to air your divergence of views publicly, fine with me as long as the moderators are ok with it.

Uncle Bill, Buddhism gets more attractive everyday.........
 
The problem with muslims is the fact that they will NEVER accept the western life or the Jewish right to exist. No one every states it like it is, there I did. I don't give two hoots for them. It boils down to a matter of time, them or us. Sorry but it is true.

Sam
 
At the risk of pushing the "free speech concept" on this forum --- I will say one more thing and try to leave it there .....

I do not mean to imply that all Muslims are terrorists. Far from it. But we should realize that many terrorist acts have been committed by Muslims. Far more that have been committed by Jews, or any other group of people.

As Dennis Miller so eloquently put it:

The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about that:

There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word.

Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years. "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern invention.

Before the Israelis won the land in war, Gaza was owned by Egypt, and there were no "Palestinians" then, and the West Bank was owned by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians" then. As soon as the Jews took over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the "Palestinians," weeping for their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation."

So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" any more to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our deaths until someone points out they're being taped. Instead, let's call them what they are: "Other Arabs Who Rather Than Accomplish Anything In Life Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death." I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN.

How about this, then: "Adjacent Jew-Haters."

Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own country. Oops, just one more thing. No, they don't. They could've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, especially two years ago at Camp David. But if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to figure out some way to make a living. That's no fun. No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region want: Israel.

They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course -- that's where the real fun is -- but mostly they want Israel. Why?

For one thing, trying to destroy Israel -- or "The Zionist Entity" as their textbooks call it -- for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward on God's Earth, and if you've ever been around God's Earth, you know that's really saying something.

It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic about the great history and culture of the Muslim Mideast.

Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since Algebra, and, by the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one.

Chew this around and spit it out: Five hundred million Arabs; five million Jews. Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, everyone will be pals. Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what about the string of wars to obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths to drive every Jew into the sea?

Oh, that? We were just kidding.

My friend Kevin Rooney made a gorgeous point the other day: Just reverse the numbers. Imagine five hundred million Jews and five million Arabs. I was stunned at the simple brilliance of it.

Can anyone picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite to themselves? Of course not. Or marshalling every fiber and force at their disposal for generations to drive a tiny Arab state into the sea?

Nonsense.

Or Jews dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Impossible.

Or Jews spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their bread with the blood of children? Disgusting.

No, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the worst Jews would ever do to people is debate them to death.

Mr. Bush, God bless him, is walking a tightrope. I understand that with vital operations coming up against Iraq and others, it's in our interest, as Americans, to try to stabilize our Arab allies as much as possible, and, after all, that can't be much harder than stabilizing a roomful of supermodels who've just had their drugs taken away.

However, in any big-picture strategy, there's always a danger of losing moral weight. We've already lost some. After September 11 our president told us and the world he was going to root out all terrorists and the countries that supported them. Beautiful.

Then the Israelis, after months and months of having the equivalent of an Oklahoma City every week (and then every day) start to do the same thing we did, and we tell them to show restraint.

If America were being attacked with an Oklahoma City every day, we would all very shortly be screaming for the administration to just be done with it and kill everything south of the Mediterranean and east of the Jordan.

Bill Marsh
 
I have a solultion. Let's just incorportate some territory into state number 51 and say, "OK, boys. Here's the new deal....."

Yes, Buddhism does look attractive -- however, even in the highest places there can be disagreement. The Dali Lama wants to try to recover his country through dialog and via the peaceful route -- won the Nobel Peace Prize due to his philosophy and dedicated efforts. His own brother wants to mount an army and take Tibet back by force of arms.

There will be wars and rumors of wars.

I don't think it's ever going to be easy.
 
I stand by my earlier posting. I do not take my history lessons from TV or comedians but instead choose to look at the facts.

My credentials ?

I hold a master's degree in International Relations and a master's degree in Sociological Studies. I graduated summa cum Laude from both the Military Academy (2nd from my entire class) and from the War college ( Valedictorian of my class). I was an officer for close to 15 years and spent the essential of my career dealing with Terrorism and Political violence first hand. I have been there (and go to those trouble spots quite often actually since this is part of my job)


Two important point that were apparently missed:

1)I do not support anyone in this conflict1.

As far as I am concerned, they can all go to Hell and I'll be happy to give them a ride. I am not prepared to see my son/brother/friend killed for people :
- who are so courageous that most of them prefer cowardly to live here rather than in the country they claim to have wanted for centuries [Facts: There are more Jews living in the US than in Israel . Why?]
- who have managed to start a civil war in every country they took refuge(Jordan, Lebanon etc...) [Facts: No Arab nation is prepare to accept Palestinian refugees.Why?]

2)I wish that we all stuck to knives and jokes .

Yes, there is Freedom of Speech, there is also a place and a time. I am really sick and tired of people who use this forum to promote THEIR political/Religious views about anything and everything. If I am not mistaken the forum refers to " the leading edge in KNIFE (key word) discussion. All I am asking is that WE all go back to this original intend. I want to learn how to polish the handle of my khuks from Beo, or read about John's collection and benefit from his wealth of knowledge on the subject. on the other hand , I (like many I am sure) have no interest in partisan political views. I have witnessed first hand what man can do to another in the name of politics. The only time I will ever take arms again is to defend this land if ever invaded.Period. Not to fight for the benefit of a few and kill people in their own land in the name of mankind. [by the way Sams who says our way is better? ]


And no...I do not have a choice to ignore those postings offensive to me.

Why? Simple:

a) When I go to the Forum, I review every new thread looking for interesting info about Khuks. More than often the title says very little about the content and I have no choice but to read it to see what's it is all about. When anyone has a result shove down my throat his/her one-sided, armchair political quartebacking views, I am p....off. How would you like it if I came to your living room and start a fight.[To be clear: this is not a personal attack , Bill. I know you did not write the first posting. i have seen it before. I just reacted to this one. It could have been anyone of these politicly motivated postings that I have read]

b) I do not feel that I should leave this forum because it is supposed to be about KNIVES and I have a genuine interest (like many) in Khuks, Uncle Bill's work and by extension our friends in Nepal.

Here is my solution:

For those who believe in grandstanding: Buy a knife from HI, pack your bags and go fight for the very ideas/people you so dearly support. Save me the rethorics.

For those who don't have the guts: Buy a knife (at least it helps HI) and give it to a true soldier. He will have use for it when fighting YOUR battles.

For those of you who are not so passionate but want to help: send some money to Uncle Bill so that he can make good use of it for our friends in Nepal.

For those who feel like starting a political discussion: Title the tread accordingly and limit your posting to a new URL where you will have the forum and to your personal email.


Again, my interests coming to this forum is about HI, not anyone's political views... and yes I have put my money where my mouth is. I just don't believe advertising it will make me a better person.
 
I just read my personal email and received a very nice note from Bill Marsh. Out of respect for Bill , I will not elaborate on the content but I need to add the following statement to my previous postings.

1)Bill, You are a gentleman and you just verified this by your actions.

2) I was too quick to shoot from the hip and used your posting to vent the frustration that I have had about other political postings on this forum. For this,Bill,I apologize to you publicly.

3)Bill, you just verified that the people who hang around here are indeed good people. You are OK in my book and I will be more than happy to buy you a beer anytime. For the time being, not being in Atlanta, I can only extend an open hand of frienship.
 
Pierre, I respect your point of view. If grandstanding bothers you, and side comments not related to knives, you have the option of not reading what offends, or not caring.

I do not believe the largest refugee population in the world is Palistinian. Perhaps the largest standing group. They have been reproducing in, 'refugee status' for decades. Palistinians are refugees from many other middle eastern nations: why aren't these helping support them? Because the "palistinian problem" assists them in dealing with the West, and in maintaining fascist control of their own nations while scapegoating the great Satan.

If grandstanding bothers you, you should have left your credentials and ego at the door and stated opinion only without the contempt from your own grandstand. Why are you still reacting to this? What is the matter with you? This isn't about opinion in the forum: there are many extremely well educated, and not well educated but brilliant posters here. Your offense offends me. I'll live. I require no modification of your behavior or of anyonelse's in this forum. I wouldn't think of asking for it. If you want to continue sounding like a pipsqueak called off his throne to deal with the children by all means carry on.

munk
 
Jeez, it seems that during my absence there's been quite the influx of experts and demagogues.

Pierre, your bio states you were born in France and raised in Africa yet you have the nerve to revile folks who were born and live in the U.S. because they don't choose to move to the Middle East just because members of their religious or ethnic groups may have come from the area?

Perhaps we should invite you to do the same?

I work counter and anti terrorism investigations routinely and I'm glad that the folks I work cases with and track down targets with don't share your world view.

I've learned a little in 25 years of federal service about folks who need to beat their chest to convince others of their credentials.
 
Munk to answer your questions:

A) I only posted my credentials to sustains the facts that I was not talking out of my a.... I am sure someone would have made a point to challenge me on that and I just wanted to save the space. I did not intend to offend anyone but merely stating that I know what I am talking about.

B) Read carefully what I wrote this time with you glasses on and you will see that I do not support ANYONE, including the Palestinians in this conflict [I am now stating this for the 3rd time].

C) All I am (was) asking for is that we return to what this forum was initially intended for : Knives.

D) Again I stand by what I wrote. This is not about whether People posting are educated or not. There are people, educated or not, that have an opinion on everything but NEVER have the B... to stand for what they claim to cherish.

Why am I reacting to this? Simple: This forum is about Knives not politics. Had you carefully read what I wrote, you would have realized that NO, I do not have a choice not to read those political comments [Point A of my posting].

I could have finish this posting by answering the pipsqueak reference with another ungracious epithet. Instead I will read again your post and try to see you point.
 
Pierre, why do say I have not read your post? You don't like Arafat or Israel's actions. I posted a brief on Palistine showing the issue was more complex than the ugly characterization of US foriegn policy you inferred earlier. The pipsqeak reference was intended to rebuke someone of obvious intelligence and character into getting ahold of himself. I share your frustrations with the world. No, I do not unrealistically expect any forum anywhere to conform to my expectations or even its own stated purposes. God; why would I want that anyway? Who am I? What kind of world would that make?

Why does it upset you? That is the crux. You've been on earth all this time and are still upset about the things you posted earlier? What a delicate blossom you are. All that rage and bitterness against the people here for what??

Pierre, bitterness is the old man's pitfall.

Honest to God I don't mean to sound patronizing.

munk
 
Blue ,

This one is to answer your questions:

Yes I was born In France and grew up in Africa, this was obviously not my choice. But since you read my profile, you should also have read " French by Birth , American by choice". The fact that I am a Naturalized American does not make me a second class citizen {apparently for you it does}. I chose to live here. This country is as much mine as it is yours, even if by the chance of the "lucky Sperm" club you happened to be born here.

In regards to my statement regarding living in Israel, I take full responsability for it. You do not have to agree with it but it remains a fact that there are more Jews living in the US than Israel. If they feel so much about what is going on there, why don't they go fight for it? {may be you missed this point too, but I do believe in the right of Israel to exist}. I do not see why MY country should be dragged into a conflict that has nothing to do with us. Maybe you are willing to see friends and family members slaughtered for someone else's benefit, I am not. It is apparently a sin in this politically correct climate to state an opinion against Jewish interests. The traditional answer is to quickly label me anti-semite. Well, sorry, I do not care anymore for the Palestinians either.

I am an American. Period. Not a French-American, not a Christian-American. I am not a Christian or a French first, then happy to hide here when convenient. There are no questions in my life as to where my loyalty goes. This does not appear to be the case for many people of Jewish faith. Do I fell we should be dragged into WWIII in order to cater to a specific segment of the population. No


Finally here is for those of you with selective reading: Put your glasses on, read carefully everything I wrote and you will find out that I am more objective than you want to credit me for.

Strangely enough, Bill Marsh and I are OK about this all thing.........
 
Dear Pierre,

Thank you for your kind words. Like anyone else I can get excited about events and Uncle Bill is kind and generous enough to allow us the full espression of free speech. Sometimes I can be inappropriate and get caught up in my own rhetoric.

But Pierre, I do respectfully disagree with one point: This forum is not about knives. Not at all.

We all know the mystical presence these HI Khuks engender, a mystery of steel, brass, wood or horn, silver, leather --- and spirit.

Something much deeper and more important than just knives.

Something that binds us members of the Forum, of the Cantina together. People from all over the world. Different races, educations, rich or poor, religions, nationalities, personalities, castes, skin colors, languages, males and females.

Something that brings us together. We are concerned when one of us has to sell his Khuks. We buy them but offer to sell them back at the same price when our brother gets back on his feet.

We care when one of us is ill.

We trust each other to keep our agreements. I just traded three khuks for a kothimoda katana. I mailed mine to him at the same time he mailed his to me. We trust that the other person will keep their word.

We care desparately about the kamis and their fears about the Maoists. We offer financial support for them.

We pray for each other.

And we do disagree with each other -- not all family members get along.

BUT NO, this forum is NOT about knives, NOT about khuks, NOT even about Himalayan Imports.

It is about friends --- a brotherhood that transcends.

I am proud to be a member of this family and to call the members of this cantina my friends.

Bill Marsh
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top