Let's be realistic !!!

I have broken the tips off of Ka-Bars by sticking them into ammo boxes filled with sand. I was learning to throw. It was a bunker. Luckily, I had a friend who was in supply.

I broke some so-called Special Forces Al Mar copy from BQM just chopping brush. Blade snapped right at the finger guard.

I broke a Rambo 2 knife chopping. Blade separated from the crappy hollow handle.

Two of the three failures were due to poor tang (too thin and too short).

My favorite throwing knife now is a machete. The handle is getting loose.
 
I mentioned in the origional posting about tangs but I am also referring to the types of steel used etc.You read stuff on here and start to think that your D2 or S30v blade will snap the first time you give it any hard use or that your Aus8 blade will go blunt as a butter knife the first time you use it and this is just not the case.
I am not saying that certain steels are no better than others but I am saying that quite often the difference in performance is minimal and not something that we should get too hung up over !!!
 
I broke the tip on an 806D2, but I was prying with it. Note that being a folder, it wasn't full tang :D

The tang bit is a little funny, considering the lack of metal through the handle of a 15 pound sledgehammer, claw hammer, axe, or the tiny bit of shaft you see in the translucent handles of screwdrivers. We impact, pry, chop, and twist with tools that don't have a 1/4" thick piece of metal connecting the working end to our hand all the time without worry.
 
^^ yes but on many of those tools the temper is different and the handles now have been going to fiber glass due to the wooden handles breaking and cracking, but i do see the irony
-matt
 
That's something I forgot to mention, in relation to temper. Performance depends on how/if the tang got heat treated.
 
Full tang, properly executed, will be stronger. More steel = more strength.

That doesn't mean that hidden tang is weak. Some are, some aren't. Heat treating plays a role, as does proper geometry. Some time ago, there were pictures of a CS Recon Scout that snapped while being batoned into and by frozen wood. It broke where there was a very sharp angle in the tang, or a very, very small radius curve. I doubt that failure was due to a hidden tang, should have been radiused bigger, or bad heat treat, who knows? That was a very unusual failure, and didn't cause me to lose faith in any of my hidden tang knives. I have used and abused them far more than that poster did, with rarely any problems.

Hidden tang knives are much kinder to the hands in cold weather. And around electricity. The only concerns that I have are with uncoated blades. I'm always worried that water will work it's way past the blade into the tang unseen, and quietly rust the blade out inside the handle. Probably just being paranoid, but there you go. That's one of the reasons I prefer coated blades, assuming the tang is coated also. Then no worries.
 
I love the steel of the week. Really. I have one of every steel made almost. I want knives with full tang supper tough carbon steel. I just bought a Dog Father. I already have a S6 LE and an RD7. I have never chopped anything in my life. I do baton some for fun. I have 320 plus nights camping. Never built a fire once. I accidentally bought a CS Outdoorsman in AUS8A. I took it out to test it and after 2-3 hours of shaving dried alder (quite hard) the darn knife was still shaving sharp. What is going on here. My D2 knives get dull in about 2 hours of carving. The AUS8A was quit equal to my BG-42 knives.
I have broken a Buck Special in half batoning years ago.
The point is I buy knives for the fun of it and imaginary uses are part of the fun. If reality gets in the way I would have just stayed with my CS Master Hunter in Carbon V and not bought the last 75 knives. And I would not be here on this forun and every other knife forum with my new hobby. So, Yes in reality I NEED my 1/4" thick SR77 (INFI, S30V, SR101, Carbon V, A2,???) knife to sit next to my computer in case I get lost in bordum and have to chop my way out.
Ron Athay
 
On a more serious note. I used to carry a .22 when I went hiking. Then we got our car stolen. A few trips later we ran into drug dealers (cops solved that problem). Now I carry a .357. Hope I never need it, but if I do it will do the job. I carry a strong survival knife. Hope I never need it. I also carry a good saw. If I ever need them they will not fail me. Is a full tang, tough carbon knife necessary. May be, may be not. Since I have the option, I choose to carry a knife I trust (no I do not carry a two pound, 10 inch chooper, thats what the saw is for). 5-6 inch thick, strong, sharp knife. It must cut and it must baton without worry about breaking. I also carry a RAT3 sized knife for cutting. I never understood knife tests where the tester checks to make sure the super chopper will cut cheese and apples.
Ron Athay
 
Esav Benyamin said:
If you look at modern repros of "trade knives' you will see what the Indians and frontiersmen used for knives. They were very similar to cheap carbon kitchen knives we use today.

These knives could not chop or pry or dig like the overbuilt tactical fixed blades we see being sold as survival knives. But true expert survivors got by very well with knives that cut.
Click to expand...

This is just as nonsensical and misleading as the general idea proposed by this thread. The FACTS are that lots of NATIVE knives are designed to chop and pry, dig and pound and are not simple light use cutting tools. It is also a FACT when natives are shown better tools they respond to them quite well. The eskimo's used bone knives for a very long time but when they were shown steel they were highly praised. It isn't just what is used but what else was used and why what was used was selected. If all you have available to you is a can lid stuck in a piece of wood then you make due, but you don't promote that as some sort of functional idea.

thombrogan said:
The idea that a full tang is needed for a knife to do its job is not fact-based.
Click to expand...

This is just hype coming from salesmen of course. There is little actual strain on the tang of a knife when you pry with it. However it is an easy point to sell to someone and you can easily "demonstrate" it by using a knife with an annealed tang and bending it trivially.

pit man said:
So my question is this ,and please be honest,how many of you have broke a knife whilst doing normal tasks cutting rope,basic bushcraft etc?
Click to expand...

Rope is kind of difficult, I have functionally damaged knives during bushcraft by my knives are fairly extreme in geometries compared to most. In general what most people forget is that survival can mean high excited people with little experience, not just you but the people around you. Do you really want to have a knife that only you can use when you are out with your friends and something bad happens. What happens if you are injured? Or can even you retain perfect technique when you are very stressed, fatigued (get sloppy), poor light, etc. .

-Cliff
 
Ha. Once again, Cliff Stamp proves the old saying:
Anything you say can be misinterpreted and used against you.

Great man for breaking blades, not so great at reading comprehension. :rolleyes:
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Ha. Once again, Cliff Stamp proves the old saying:
Anything you say can be misinterpreted and used against you.

Great man for breaking blades, not so great at reading comprehension. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Since wherever he goes there he is, perhaps Cliff should go to a well stocked museum of period knives...maybe look at them. :p
 
Scrapyard knives may not be an EXPOSED TANG, but htey are full tang knives, make no mistake about it. You could remove the rubber and put micarta over it quite easily if you had to, or wrap it. Anyway stick tangs are a weak point in a knife and you will eventually end up with just a blade when you use stick tangs for hard use, plain and simple.
 
As part of my job, I use a knife and carry a multi tool all the time.

Every multi tool I have ever owner, has failed me.
None are very good a working man tools.
You can name any brand of multi tool and they have taken a spot on my belt for a time, only to fail me under the stress of my real life work situations.

I still use a multi tool all the time, Im still always looking for a better one.
But they are never as good as the tools they are made to replace, they are just more handy.

I like multi tools, I just dont like the way they always bend, twist, or break on me.
 
As for the question about what type of tang ?

I have never had a knife 'tang" become a problem for me at work.
I have had the knife "blades" fail on me, but the tangs are never the cause of any trouble.

Snapped blades is a real concern for a working man such as myself.
Dull blades is another real concern.

But never the tang....
So far, (and I use a knife a lot in my job out doors cutting roots and plastic pipe and 2X4s and all sorts of crap) it really has not mattered to me what type of tang is on the knife Im cutting with. Most knives seem to have a tang thats able to work well enough.

The fact is, I have never even heard of them cheap knives failing because of the tang.
I work with guys who each have a few junk blades in their cars with long histories of use. I have never heard of a "tang" that failed them.

bent blades, chipped blades, snapped blades, thats what you hear about .
But the tangs, even on some very cheap knives still seem able to hang on well enough.
 
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