Let's Talk about Buffers

[AVigil]

Knowledge is power. Here is a video covering the basics

 

[Scott Hanson]

Knowledge is power. Here is a video covering the basics

Couldn't agree more with you Adam. But unfortunately, what I keep seeing is stuff like this on the internet. You try telling them that's dangerous, and they come right back around and tell you, "No it's not, it's not dangerous". It's no wonder guys are getting hurt.

 

[Scaniaman]

Burr King makes a tapered spindle end like the Baldor ones. It screws on in place of the wheel nut and has a set screw to hold it on. I can simply take the wheel off and put the spindle on. Then I can change buffs quickly. I have 10" buffs because I usually have the 10" wheel on my grinder. I can keep the platen, and work rest in place. I hope that makes sense. Any other questions, please let me know.

You can get these adapters/spindles and also ones with a cylindrical shaft and mounting plates instead, for standard size motor shafts. So getting a foot mounted 3-phase motor and that, gives you a pretty cheap and compact variable speed buffer (given you already have a VFD).

 

[AVigil]

Couldn't agree more with you Adam. But unfortunately, what I keep seeing is stuff like this on the internet. You try telling them that's dangerous, and they come right back around and tell you, "No it's not, it's not dangerous". It's no wonder guys are getting hurt.
View attachment 1201130

Holy Crap

That looks like the rear end of a Little Rascals car

 

[coldsteelburns]

Couldn't agree more with you Adam. But unfortunately, what I keep seeing is stuff like this on the internet. You try telling them that's dangerous, and they come right back around and tell you, "No it's not, it's not dangerous". It's no wonder guys are getting hurt.
View attachment 1201130

Hah, well that is interesting.

It's definitely not something I would have thought up, but for full disclosure, what potentially dangerous scenario are you thinking could happen with that setup? I'm guessing the obvious is the fact that the shaft material is too weak as well as too small in diameter for it's length & its application (making it even weaker), which requires being able to withstand decent amounts of sideways pressure. But would the danger involve the shaft potentially warping or even breaking while the motor is running causing things to flay apart? It's always a plus when I can personally learn things from others' mistakes rather than only from my own lol.

"A smart person learns from his mistakes, but a wise person learns from the mistakes of others.”



~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (Just some older videos of some knives I've made in the past)

 

[weo]

I suppose that, Paul, but I wonder, on the left side, what part of the wheel are you supposed to use?

 

[Scaniaman]

Yesterday got a delivery with various wheels and compounds. I was eager to try things out as I have not buffed anything but edges on hard felt before, so I went at a Redwood burl handle this morning. Here are the before and after pics. Before is hand sanded to appr 1200-1400 and treated with linseed oil + terpuntine, dried/cured.
After is from three buffing steps. I used 1"x10" mops at appr 1500 rpm. Steps:
1: Menzerna G113GZ (like Tripoli) on loosefold B mop. (Maybe could have skipped this step due to fine hand sanding?).
2: Menzerna GW16 (a rather greasy finishing compound for composite, plastic etc) on loosefold G mop.
3: Carnauba wax on WDR loosefold mop.
I'm very pleased with the results.

 

[Cushing H.]

Pretty. Nice demo of the buffing effect. I wonder.... for a “user” knife, does that gloss stay, or go away with use and contact with the hand?

 

[Scaniaman]

I have no experience with that yet. Caranauba is a pretty hard wax, but for sure it wears of with use.

 

[Sam Wilson]

That looks great. I would offer a suggestion, I would ditch the linseed oil. Linseed oil (even boiled) is a pretty weak/poor finish. It also dries very slowly, and takes forever to cure (and some would argue that it never really "cures" at all). Instead, try Truoil, which is a variation of tung oil, or for even better gloss/clarity use varnish.

Simply take the sheen you want (gloss will give you the best clarity) and I would recommend quick dry varnish and preferably alkyd resin over polyurethane, although that's not a huge deal. Then just cut it 30-60% with mineral spirits or turpentine and stir well. Just wipe on a coat and let it soak it, then wipe off when it starts to get tacky.

After it dries, lightly sand and repeat, or you can wet sand it in using the varnish mixture as lubricant. Both ways produce about the same result. If I start a handle in the morning (approximately 4 hours dry time between coats) I can have three coats dry and ready for finishing by the end of the following day, if I use quick dry varnish. And a total of less than 10 minutes spent in that time applying the finish.

When it's dry and cured (overnight is even better), LIGHTLY wet sand with 1000-2000 grit and don't break through. Then buff and/or wax. Far more durable than linseed oil and polishes to a better sheen. I hope that helps.

Sam

Yesterday got a delivery with various wheels and compounds. I was eager to try things out as I have not buffed anything but edges on hard felt before, so I went at a Redwood burl handle this morning. Here are the before and after pics. Before is hand sanded to appr 1200-1400 and treated with linseed oil + terpuntine, dried/cured.
After is from three buffing steps. I used 1"x10" mops at appr 1500 rpm. Steps:
1: Menzerna G113GZ (like Tripoli) on loosefold B mop. (Maybe could have skipped this step due to fine hand sanding?).
2: Menzerna GW16 (a rather greasy finishing compound for composite, plastic etc) on loosefold G mop.
3: Carnauba wax on WDR loosefold mop.
I'm very pleased with the results.

 

[Scaniaman]

Thanks, all advice is appreciated! Yeah I found out about Tung oil as a better alternative a little while back. And I plan to pick up a bottle the next time I order supplies. This is also what Beal recomends before using their wood buffing "system".
I did have a horrible experience years ago when I used raw cold pressed linseed oil on a buckeye burl handle. Haha it cured eventually, but it didn't feel or smell dry intill after 6 months or something.
The boiled stuff mixed with terpuntine I think works allright as for drying/curing, at least the stuff I'm using.

 

[Scott Hanson]

Hah, well that is interesting.

It's definitely not something I would have thought up, but for full disclosure, what potentially dangerous scenario are you thinking could happen with that setup? I'm guessing the obvious is the fact that the shaft material is too weak as well as too small in diameter for it's length & its application (making it even weaker), which requires being able to withstand decent amounts of sideways pressure. But would the danger involve the shaft potentially warping or even breaking while the motor is running causing things to flay apart? It's always a plus when I can personally learn things from others' mistakes rather than only from my own lol.

"A smart person learns from his mistakes, but a wise person learns from the mistakes of others.”



~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (Just some older videos of some knives I've made in the past)

I'm pretty sure that flexible shaft would increase its ability to grab a knife blade and throw back at you, especially it the shaft got even slightly bent or a bit out of alignment and started vibrating or wobbling on you during use. All I do know for certain is, I would never use a machine like that to buff a knife blade or anything. That all thread rod is so flimsy even bumping into it when it's not running could bend it or throe it out of alignment.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Plus the fact that the left wheel is almost touching the workbench top.

 

[Scaniaman]

I had to play a little more with this new wood buffing system. So I took my main user hunting knife and cleaned it up. It's a Mora/Frosts sheep skinner I rehandled a while back, before I started making my own blades. The handle was a bit scratched and the finish was quite matte. Sorry forgot to take the before pic..

 

[DustinY]

As a newbie I love that safety around this tool was stressed like it is, I had no idea (and yeah I have common sense but it isn’t directly intuitive). I know a ton of people that refuse to have buffers in their shop because of the dangers (don nguyen has mention this in his videos). Safety to some people is second nature, and for others who are extremely new to tools (like myself, it isn’t always crystal clear). I think some of my takeaways are as follows (just to add to the discussion):

1. Setup is the key to success, clear area around Buffer, do not mount directly to the bench, elevate it above everything (preferably its own work station).

2. Be mindful of grip, and how’re your setup. Elbows in at sides locked in, firm handle on the work piece.

3. Blades are the most dangerous to buff (which I have 0 intentions of ever doing), I just want to use it for handles, so this leads me to the big conclusion.

4. Bench top jewelry polisher with 6” wheels will be best suited for my application.


Let me know what you guys think, probably going to snag the foredom benchtop buffer.

 

[DustinY]

I know I’m resurrecting an old beast here but newbie question: I’ve seen advice here to start at 6” but the foredom benchtop lathe that I want seems to only run smallerr wheels? Can someone explain the dangers of the smaller wheels? Also, is this a decent option? Weigh in / advice here would be appreciated!

 

[Bill DeShivs]

The little Foredom machine is good for polishing smaller items. It is no more/less dangerous than other buffers.
While it is an excellent machine, I would prefer a larger unit for knife work.

 

[DustinY]

The little Foredom machine is good for polishing smaller items. It is no more/less dangerous than other buffers.
While it is an excellent machine, I would prefer a larger unit for knife work.

I’m only planning to buff handles (stabilizes woods, g10, micarta’s). Is this to small for that?

 

[Bill DeShivs]

You may have to use a variety of buffs and compounds to achieve the effect you want, but it should work.

 

[Mere Edge]

The thing about having a lot of success is that it .can. lead to complacency, where you assume you're doing things the right way and nothing can or will ever happen. Thus relaxed, we're more exposed.

Risk stacks. It is additive. Complacence, repetition, loose wheel, poor stance, slipping hand, fatigue, debris under foot, a sudden noise, etc. I like to plan for error: if the part is grabbed by the wheel will it be aimed at me?