Let's talk about flipping action.

Justin Schmidt

Justin Schmidt

Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
2,209
Ok so I've never really been into folders until now. I've always been the type to buy a 20 dollar knife abuse the hell out of it then throw it out and buy a new one. Now that I'm getting into making knives I'm really starting to fall in love with folders, liner/ frame lock more specifically. My question is with the flipping action. Are caged bearings really that great or do the bronze washers do exactly what you need? Also detent ball or stop pin?
 
In general a properly made bearing flipper will always be smoother than a washer folder. I actually haven't seen a single garbage bearing folder, from $40 all the way to $300+. I have seen a lot of bad washer flippers, however.

Washers will do the job, don't get me wrong, and when properly made they are buttery smooth and oh so nice to flip. Bearings, however, are virtually frictionless at their best, and make a nice strong detent flipper fire like an auto with a nice solid thwack. Bearings are also harder to gum up with a good cage design because grit has to get past the cage to possibly affect the action, with washers the clearance is more tight, but when grit is in it can actually damage the washers becaus e they are such a soft metal.Bearings do need a thin oil (not thick) if you don't want to run them dry, washers don't really care.

As for the detent ball and stop pin, so long as they are present on the knife you should be fine. Never seen a folder without a detent ball that wasn't designed with some other kind of retention system, and I have never seen a folder without a stop pin (or handle that acts as one).
 
Properly made washer flippers are VERY difficult to make. People underestimate how difficult they are to make well. Not just simply dropping a washers and boom you have smoothness.

You can have bearings or washers that are done horribly bad. Bearings come with their own challenges.

Detent ball is a must as well as a stop pin. There is a reason they have been used on liner and framelocks for decades.
 
ZT makes some fantastic bearing flippers. I've only had several other flippers that were on washers and like mentioned before, they need to be made properly.
 
valknut said:
I like it. Wouldn't the plastic cage for the bearing erode over time?
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Technically yes, but what time period is realistic? Do you need to pass it on to your great grandchildren?

The bearings won't wear out under normal circumstances for a very long time.
 
I like caged bearings. Of course now that I moved to California I can't legally carry my flippers so I play with them at home and use them around the house.
 
Locutus D'Borg said:
I like caged bearings. Of course now that I moved to California I can't legally carry my flippers so I play with them at home and use them around the house.
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Why would you think flippers are illegal in California?
 
Flippers are completely legal in in California, autos and Bali's can be owned but not carried.

~Chip
 
I think not.

"Switchblades head the list of fully illegal knives in the Golden State. Switchblades include gravity knives and all types where a mechanical fitting or wrist flick causes rapid blade deployment. One-handed pocket knives opened with a thumb stud on the blade are exempted as long as there is a detent or if the construction is “biased towards closure.” California Penal Code 17235 deals with this matter."



WValtakis said:
Flippers are completely legal in in California, autos and Bali's can be owned but not carried.

~Chip
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If a flipper has a weak detent then it could be a problem if it can be wrist flicked without touching the blade, but the detent is "bias towards closure". A flipper tab is also not a mechanical fitting but part of the blade itself which exempts it.

Autos with blade length >2" are prohibited from carry and transport in the passenger compartment of a vehicle but not ownership. This has been discussed and confirmed here before.
 
We are in agreement. Basically, the law is open to interpretation, and I don't want to get into parsing the law with a police officer, so I play it safe and carry non-flippers with the pocket clip visible.

WValtakis said:
If a flipper has a weak detent then it could be a problem if it can be wrist flicked without touching the blade, but the detent is "bias towards closure". A flipper tab is also not a mechanical fitting but part of the blade itself which exempts it.

Autos with blade length >2" are prohibited from carry and transport in the passenger compartment of a vehicle but not ownership. This has been discussed and confirmed here before.
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So what exactly is the point of having the stop pin track? I've seen washer knives without them but the knives I've seen with bearings all have the stop pin track.
 
Locutus D'Borg said:
We are in agreement. Basically, the law is open to interpretation, and I don't want to get into parsing the law with a police officer, so I play it safe and carry non-flippers with the pocket clip visible.
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I think the law may be saying flipper as in bali song but who honestly knows what the law means. I feel like if you were to carry a flipper as long as you're in the right (minus the legality of the knife) you would be okay.

I've always carried autos or whatever suits my fancy for the day. Never really been in a bad situation with one of my knives though.
 
I'm a loving me some well made bearing flippers. ZT seems to have really up'd their game in milling tolerance and QC. Not sure I've met a KVT that I didn't like. But in terms of my absolute smoothest flipper, gotta go with my Kizer 3452. It's now been fired open (usually fast and hard), somewhere north of 7k times. I think it's got caged ceramic bearings. I'm now convinced they will hold up to use over many lifetimes. [emoji56][emoji41]



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Sent from my mind....using Tap-a-Thought. (tm)
 
bflying said:
I'm a loving me some well made bearing flippers. ZT seems to have really up'd their game in milling tolerance and QC. Not sure I've met a KVT that I didn't like. But in terms of my absolute smoothest flipper, gotta go with my Kizer 3452. It's now been fired open (usually fast and hard), somewhere north of 7k times. I think it's got caged ceramic bearings. I'm now convinced they will hold up to use over many lifetimes. [emoji56][emoji41]



•••••••••••••••

Sent from my mind....using Tap-a-Thought. (tm)
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Good to know. Still can't seem to figure out why there is a pin track is some knives but not all.
 
valknut said:
Good to know. Still can't seem to figure out why there is a pin track is some knives but not all.
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Because of design tastes. Some design a knife to keep the stop pin hidden. Some do not. All good, just different.
 
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