Let's talk about neck knives
- Thread starter Corduroy
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I do. I have offered these options for quite some time. My knives also have the ability to be sewn into article so clothing. Great sewn in to the side of a boot. Or a heavy jacket. I also have the hard clip for invert carry. Not to be confused with the flimsy clips made of Kydex. Kydex an awesome sheath material, just to flimsy to make a good clip. (my opinion)
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Lynn Griffith-Tactical Knifemaker
Winner of "Best Tactical Knife" at 1999 PKA show
My website
See my award winning "Spec Ops Tanto" in Gallery 3 of my website
GriffithKN@aol.com
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Lots of good posts here.
I own several neck knives from a few makers:
Fred Perrin, Ray Kirk, and Rob Simonich to name the best of them.
First and foremost is the fact that I like each of the knives themselves. Each is fully functional and well designed.
Secondly, I like and respect each of the makers, making the knives more "special" to me.
Each of the neck knives I own would work as well for pocket carry or belt carry as around the neck, making them very versatile.
It is not a problem to wrap the cord or chain around a belt or belt loop and then carry the knife IWB or in the pocket.
Now, as for defense, I would agree that generally speaking the neck knife is not the fastest to deploy for that particular purpose. Unless of course you are in a t-shirt and can easily reach in and take the knife from above or below.
I do think the neck knife is very viable as a utility knife, and especially valuable as a backup or last ditch knife.
I work as an LEO and besides a firearm almost always have at least a pocket knife of some kind (fixed or folder) and a neck knife on my person. I don't think of my knives primarily as weapons. I have a firearm for that. I do rely much more often on my knives for regular use however.
Fad or not, I feel better knowing that the small, sharp blade is close by ready to be called into use when needed.
Blues
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Live Free or Die
I own several neck knives from a few makers:
Fred Perrin, Ray Kirk, and Rob Simonich to name the best of them.
First and foremost is the fact that I like each of the knives themselves. Each is fully functional and well designed.
Secondly, I like and respect each of the makers, making the knives more "special" to me.
Each of the neck knives I own would work as well for pocket carry or belt carry as around the neck, making them very versatile.
It is not a problem to wrap the cord or chain around a belt or belt loop and then carry the knife IWB or in the pocket.
Now, as for defense, I would agree that generally speaking the neck knife is not the fastest to deploy for that particular purpose. Unless of course you are in a t-shirt and can easily reach in and take the knife from above or below.
I do think the neck knife is very viable as a utility knife, and especially valuable as a backup or last ditch knife.
I work as an LEO and besides a firearm almost always have at least a pocket knife of some kind (fixed or folder) and a neck knife on my person. I don't think of my knives primarily as weapons. I have a firearm for that. I do rely much more often on my knives for regular use however.
Fad or not, I feel better knowing that the small, sharp blade is close by ready to be called into use when needed.
Blues
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Live Free or Die
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Just bought my first NK, a Pat Crawford Kasper model. I can see the utility as a holdout blade, but as a primary, I'd go with a clipped folder or an IWB fixed anyday.
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Drew,
I fall into the Utility Category
. I use my Rekat (Fang, or Utility) NK when I am fishing from the shore, or a canoe. It comes in handy since changing lures - beats using your teeth
. The multi-postion sheath offered by Rekat KN is handy if I want to carry in several other positions.
Neck sheaths are very handy IMHO - I own serveral (Mike Sastre - River City Sheaths)
This way my shorts are being pulled down by the 2 lbs of knives, keys, and wallet that I carry around every day. Or is it because my butt isn't big enough to hold up my shorts?! LOL.
Ray 'md2020'
I fall into the Utility Category
Neck sheaths are very handy IMHO - I own serveral (Mike Sastre - River City Sheaths)
Ray 'md2020'
Llamedos - IWB = inside waist Band Just the handle to top of the handle sticking out.
In general I am an utility user. The biggest problem is tha once the knife is out it takes two hands to but it away.
At the moment the neck knife I carry most often is a Spiderco Ladybug which has a clip from a pencil poprivited to the lanyard hole. The clip is clipped to a piese of mason's string around my neck. Very small but it is with me 24 - 7 for about the last month.
In general I am an utility user. The biggest problem is tha once the knife is out it takes two hands to but it away.
At the moment the neck knife I carry most often is a Spiderco Ladybug which has a clip from a pencil poprivited to the lanyard hole. The clip is clipped to a piese of mason's string around my neck. Very small but it is with me 24 - 7 for about the last month.
I've improvised with a Cold Steel Recon Tanto in the neck knife carry mode. Using the stock sheath with the leg tie string looped around my neck (sheath inverted-hilt down) and the draw string of my running shorts tied to the belt loop to hold it against my abdomen, I've carried the knife this way while running on the road and in the woods. I've been harassed by drunks in cars and having the knife makes me feel more secure....never actually needed it though....I have also had trouble with dogs. Slipping my hand up under my T shirt or windbreaker and deploying the knife is easy in this clothing. Other than that use, I cannot see any advantage over carrying the knife on the belt...but under these circumstances it's been a pretty slick carry system. For daily utility carry I prefer a folder with a pocket clip....for camping and hunting it's always a fixed blade on the belt. These little fixed blade knives around the neck don't seem very practical to me... perhaps as a backup, but I don't lead such an exciting life. Were I to spend more time dangerous country, I'd pack a firearm...too greedy for life to be 100% knife nut.
ptn
ptn
Lot of good thoughts in here on neck knife carry and use.
I must be one of the exceptions on neck knife carry. For the last couple of years I've carried a neck knife every time I go jogging. I jog in an urban neighborhood and am very comfortable carrying the neck knife on the outside. Don't we have any joggers in here? Nakano does his bicycle thing, but where are the other joggers? Oops, I saw ptn`s post after I finished mine!
When I jog my primary defense is my awareness and my feet. I have no problem being very aware of where I jog and what is around me. I know the neighborhoods where I jog and I know when something isn't quite right around me. I have put my hand on my knife on only a few occassions. I have never had to draw it, let alone use it while jogging.
However, the knife (even a small neck knife) for defensive use is definitely not bogus. I can have my neck knife in my hand before I even think about it. It doesn't take more than a few months of FMA (or similar) training to understand what you can do with even a small knife.
I must respectfully disagree that using a neck knife for self defense is bogus. I will grant that it might be true for someone who is completely untrained and unfamiliar with knives used for self defense. I do stipulate that a bigger knife is better AND I would never bring a knife to a gun fight!
Drew, I generally agree with you on a lot of what you say. We seem to disagree on this point. But one of the neat things I've discovered about life is that it's not necessary to always agree!
[This message has been edited by Bob Irons (edited 24 September 1999).]
I must be one of the exceptions on neck knife carry. For the last couple of years I've carried a neck knife every time I go jogging. I jog in an urban neighborhood and am very comfortable carrying the neck knife on the outside. Don't we have any joggers in here? Nakano does his bicycle thing, but where are the other joggers? Oops, I saw ptn`s post after I finished mine!
When I jog my primary defense is my awareness and my feet. I have no problem being very aware of where I jog and what is around me. I know the neighborhoods where I jog and I know when something isn't quite right around me. I have put my hand on my knife on only a few occassions. I have never had to draw it, let alone use it while jogging.
However, the knife (even a small neck knife) for defensive use is definitely not bogus. I can have my neck knife in my hand before I even think about it. It doesn't take more than a few months of FMA (or similar) training to understand what you can do with even a small knife.
I must respectfully disagree that using a neck knife for self defense is bogus. I will grant that it might be true for someone who is completely untrained and unfamiliar with knives used for self defense. I do stipulate that a bigger knife is better AND I would never bring a knife to a gun fight!
Drew, I generally agree with you on a lot of what you say. We seem to disagree on this point. But one of the neat things I've discovered about life is that it's not necessary to always agree!
[This message has been edited by Bob Irons (edited 24 September 1999).]
Thanks everyone for the response - this has really been what I wanted, perspectives from all sides.
Bob - I don't think we disagree at all. Neck knives worn openly are fast as all heck if they don't get flipped around onto your back or something (they're very mobile, one drawback we haven't discussed much). I was mainly discussing them concealed. You seem to be the exception in carrying one openly without social concerns.
-Drew
Bob - I don't think we disagree at all. Neck knives worn openly are fast as all heck if they don't get flipped around onto your back or something (they're very mobile, one drawback we haven't discussed much). I was mainly discussing them concealed. You seem to be the exception in carrying one openly without social concerns.
-Drew
Social concern about open carry is a very valid consideration. In my case everyone in my neighborhood knows and recognizes the regular joggers (they wave and say hi). We're really a known quantity and my little neck knife has never bothered anyone. We've got a few regular LEOs who jog in my neighborhood and the next one over.
If I were jogging in unfamiliar surroundings, I would be more conscious of open carry and might have to put it under the shirt. In colder weather, it's partially covered by my sweat suit, but still readily accessible (zippered front left part way down). Works for me.
Glad we agree more than disagree here Drew.
I think it's important to understand both your personal limitations and your equipment limitations.
If I were jogging in unfamiliar surroundings, I would be more conscious of open carry and might have to put it under the shirt. In colder weather, it's partially covered by my sweat suit, but still readily accessible (zippered front left part way down). Works for me.
Glad we agree more than disagree here Drew.
I think it's important to understand both your personal limitations and your equipment limitations.
Sal Glesser
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Drew - Very nice thread. I learned a great deal.
methinks that my reputation for deployment has far exceeded my ability.
I would like to add an opinion. Deployment is only part of a "kata" (if you will permit the comparison) that includes critical factors, regardless of type of "tooth" or "claw" employed. Such as:
1. deployment skill iteself
2. not cutting yourself in the deployment (more common than you would think)
3. ability to effectively hit target.
4. design, practice & grip prevent "dropping" said tool during high stress, high speed activity.
5. maintaining enough presence of mind to not end up spending your life in jail by hitting the "wrong" target (a "wrong" target in a defensive situation is a fatal one).
6. having a "tool" that can be "explained" should such a reason ever occur. (much easier to explain a smaller piece).
just some thoughts to add.
sal
[This message has been edited by Sal Glesser (edited 25 September 1999).]
methinks that my reputation for deployment has far exceeded my ability.
I would like to add an opinion. Deployment is only part of a "kata" (if you will permit the comparison) that includes critical factors, regardless of type of "tooth" or "claw" employed. Such as:
1. deployment skill iteself
2. not cutting yourself in the deployment (more common than you would think)
3. ability to effectively hit target.
4. design, practice & grip prevent "dropping" said tool during high stress, high speed activity.
5. maintaining enough presence of mind to not end up spending your life in jail by hitting the "wrong" target (a "wrong" target in a defensive situation is a fatal one).
6. having a "tool" that can be "explained" should such a reason ever occur. (much easier to explain a smaller piece).
just some thoughts to add.
sal
[This message has been edited by Sal Glesser (edited 25 September 1999).]
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No, let's not talk about neck knives.
This is a very informative thread. I was given a CRKT "Stiff Kiss" recently, and have been intrigued by the carry options it offers.
Currently, we are looking at the "hide in plain sight" concept. I have tasked a friend who designs equipment for military applications to come up with a variation on the travellers' neck pouch, that would conceal a neck knife. The idea is that even if the pouch was grabbed in an attack it would break away, leaving the knife/carrier still in place and accessible.
Any input from the forum would be sincerely appreciated.
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Check Six...
Dennis
Currently, we are looking at the "hide in plain sight" concept. I have tasked a friend who designs equipment for military applications to come up with a variation on the travellers' neck pouch, that would conceal a neck knife. The idea is that even if the pouch was grabbed in an attack it would break away, leaving the knife/carrier still in place and accessible.
Any input from the forum would be sincerely appreciated.
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Check Six...
Dennis
Sal,
Didn't mean to put you on the spot, but don't sell yourself short, either. I used to work with a couple of guys who made Kydex rigs for fast deployment of fixed-blades; by comparison to that, I'd still say you're pretty darn fast. But don't go by my opinion, how about asking Dexter
?
The speed, effectiveness, and general feasability of any defensive device are going to depend largely on training, but they are also subject to inherent limitations. No matter how hard I train with it, a knife carried in a locked briefcase will never be terribly fast, and a pizza-cutter will never be very effective. We want to know before devoting our time to training what the maximal results are likely to be. I'm pulling you into the conversation as a fair example of what training in drop-opening Spydie-type folders can achieve.
Also, any amount of training can be a failure if it doesn't use the right techniques or focus on the proper things. Seeing you in action, I realized that shifting to a normal grip was an unnecessary hindrance to my deployment method. No matter that I had practiced it enough to do it reasonably quickly, it would always be much slower than your method because it's an inferior technique. Similarly, my practice has never focussed enough on the initial strike, something I've been aware of but only recently made an effort to change. Speedy deployment is worse than useless if you're not practiced in turning it into an immediate strike and ready to handle all the forces and complexities this involves.
Anyhow, my point with this thread was not to condemn neck-knives or say that rapid deployment was the only part of defense. I do believe it's a critical part, though, and I wanted to hear what, with practice, neck knives could achieve. I already know that I love them for 24-7 backup utility carry.
-Drew
Didn't mean to put you on the spot, but don't sell yourself short, either. I used to work with a couple of guys who made Kydex rigs for fast deployment of fixed-blades; by comparison to that, I'd still say you're pretty darn fast. But don't go by my opinion, how about asking Dexter
The speed, effectiveness, and general feasability of any defensive device are going to depend largely on training, but they are also subject to inherent limitations. No matter how hard I train with it, a knife carried in a locked briefcase will never be terribly fast, and a pizza-cutter will never be very effective. We want to know before devoting our time to training what the maximal results are likely to be. I'm pulling you into the conversation as a fair example of what training in drop-opening Spydie-type folders can achieve.
Also, any amount of training can be a failure if it doesn't use the right techniques or focus on the proper things. Seeing you in action, I realized that shifting to a normal grip was an unnecessary hindrance to my deployment method. No matter that I had practiced it enough to do it reasonably quickly, it would always be much slower than your method because it's an inferior technique. Similarly, my practice has never focussed enough on the initial strike, something I've been aware of but only recently made an effort to change. Speedy deployment is worse than useless if you're not practiced in turning it into an immediate strike and ready to handle all the forces and complexities this involves.
Anyhow, my point with this thread was not to condemn neck-knives or say that rapid deployment was the only part of defense. I do believe it's a critical part, though, and I wanted to hear what, with practice, neck knives could achieve. I already know that I love them for 24-7 backup utility carry.
-Drew
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
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My first thought is I could do a lot with a good sharp pizza cutter, and my second, I bet I could design a locked briefcase for fast draw ... in fact it's been done already, though only for pistols I think....
Those points are both just carping and basically irrelevant to the discussion, though.
I'm searching for a picture of our own Jens Anso wearing a different kind of neck rig ... here it is:
Jens' homepage is http://home6.inet.tele.dk/ansoe/ansoknives/
-Cougar Allen :{)
I'm searching for a picture of our own Jens Anso wearing a different kind of neck rig ... here it is:
Jens' homepage is http://home6.inet.tele.dk/ansoe/ansoknives/
-Cougar Allen :{)
Ebbtide
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My woo is handy as anything while camping and fishing. For defensive concealed carry it aint too bad under a loose sweatshirt or jacket, if you keep it hanging low on your belly.
What I DON'T like is that paracord around my neck. Anyone that's been in a fight with a necktie on knows the drill.
Also I get the teeniest shiver when I sheath it... something about the blade pointing towards my throat...
What I DON'T like is that paracord around my neck. Anyone that's been in a fight with a necktie on knows the drill.
Also I get the teeniest shiver when I sheath it... something about the blade pointing towards my throat...
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- Messages
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Hello,
My two cents in Inspector Clouseau accent:
IMHO Sal Glesser is carrying a Military.
This is really the quickest folder around.
I am using everyday a Fred Perrin La griffe for utility. It's really addictive.
For self defense, it's one of the rare knife who give self confidence.
Now I am a big fan of Bud Nealy Pesh Kabz.
IMHO the (french) police never think to check for a Neck Knife. this is a important point as in france almost every knives are forbiden.
CHeers,
JM
My two cents in Inspector Clouseau accent:
IMHO Sal Glesser is carrying a Military.
This is really the quickest folder around.
I am using everyday a Fred Perrin La griffe for utility. It's really addictive.
For self defense, it's one of the rare knife who give self confidence.
Now I am a big fan of Bud Nealy Pesh Kabz.
IMHO the (french) police never think to check for a Neck Knife. this is a important point as in france almost every knives are forbiden.
CHeers,
JM
- Joined
- Oct 28, 1998
- Messages
- 702
quote:
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Most neck knives are perfect in size for horizontal belt carry. Smart knifemakers should make the sheath usable both ways.
Or even include a removable clip.
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I make alot of different carryoptions for my kydexsheaths. I will never make a sheath just for one carryoptions. I think its silly if you need several sheaths just to change the carrying mode. All my sheaths have screw on attachments so you can change them easy.
I make beltloops were the same loop makes it possible to carry horisontal, vertical, 45 angel and inside waistband. A D-ring holder, which also dubbels as attachment for figure-8 rigs. Flap for boot,pocket or west armhole. And different shoulderrigs.
Besides this I supply paracord for different neckcarry( check Cougars post for a picture of me with a very safe carryoption) and its good for pocketcarry to.
I do however supply both leather and kydexsheaths to some of my models if needed. I feel this gives a option of being tactical looking or more plain looking. (Kydex is not very normal in my homecountry. Accually I think I´m the only one making them in Denmark.
This picture show the beltloop in action in the horisontal mode.
You can see pictures of the most used carryoptions on my homepage, but I have more to come
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Jens Anso, ansoknives@hotmail.com
(check out my homepage)
home6.inet.tele.dk/ansoe/ansoknives
[This message has been edited by ansoknive (edited 29 September 1999).]
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Most neck knives are perfect in size for horizontal belt carry. Smart knifemakers should make the sheath usable both ways.
Or even include a removable clip.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I make alot of different carryoptions for my kydexsheaths. I will never make a sheath just for one carryoptions. I think its silly if you need several sheaths just to change the carrying mode. All my sheaths have screw on attachments so you can change them easy.
I make beltloops were the same loop makes it possible to carry horisontal, vertical, 45 angel and inside waistband. A D-ring holder, which also dubbels as attachment for figure-8 rigs. Flap for boot,pocket or west armhole. And different shoulderrigs.
Besides this I supply paracord for different neckcarry( check Cougars post for a picture of me with a very safe carryoption) and its good for pocketcarry to.
I do however supply both leather and kydexsheaths to some of my models if needed. I feel this gives a option of being tactical looking or more plain looking. (Kydex is not very normal in my homecountry. Accually I think I´m the only one making them in Denmark.
This picture show the beltloop in action in the horisontal mode.
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Jens Anso, ansoknives@hotmail.com
(check out my homepage)
home6.inet.tele.dk/ansoe/ansoknives
[This message has been edited by ansoknive (edited 29 September 1999).]