Let's talk civil unrest/war weapons.

Gh0zt36 said:
I know I know , most can't even conceive it happening never mind consider it a possibility in the coming years to fruition . " The military qill quash it / the police will quash it " but the fact is those on the blue side of things are considering abolishing / defunding police blah blah blah . And lets not forget whats been happening in the cities across america this year.

This thread is however not about that . I dont want to talk politics this isnt the forum for that . Instead a scenario proposed then tools one may need.

The year is 2021 . XXXXXX has won the presidency . There is unrest . After one side confronts the other there are now open clashes in the streets . Many police have fled to protect their families . Military has been deployed in population centers but in suburban / rural areas there isnt quite the stability due to less troops.

Folks have burned through much of their ammo . And now primitive weapons are being used .

What would be a real world edged tool to defend yourself while you forage for food / move through the landscape ?


I was considering a katana but many serious blades and especially Nihonto are ALOT of money . I have about a grand or so to throw at this unlikely scenario . It will need to be a weapon that is tough . Not something that is tough but may need to be reprofiled.

There are the thatsuki nihanto kumori , Hanwei Tori XL , Zombie tools apokatana . Or would a wakazashi or perhaps a machete be more appropriate ? Perhaps even a swamp rat waki or rodent rucki .

Other tool that may be more appropriate for real world primative CQB ?

What say you ??

I can hear the *sighhhhh* even before I hit "create thread" however we do seem to be in a very fragile state in 2020 and who is to say what is to come.

So I would respectfully request refraining of " this againnnnnnn" type posts and focus more on the scenario proposed .

Thanks .
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Returning to the original premise

What would be a real world edged tool to defend yourself while you forage for food / move through the landscape ?

On foot I figure I'd have at least a knife, hatchet and spear.

Am I in a working vehicle while moving around? I'd be trading or get overwhelmed. Numbers matter.

Cheers
GC
 
We should note that modern mobility, weapons and communications have made civil wars very short.

We probably wouldn’t be able to starve to death, until after the civil war.

n2s
 
Judging by what I've seen this past year, most of the survival, prepper, tough guy crowd can't even handle the stress of sports being cancelled or wearing a mask at the grocery store without wimpering like a dog a bath time. So I'm going to say a foam LARP sword would probably be the best bet for this type of scenario. That way it will limit the discomfort from when it gets taken away shoved somewhere tender.
 
GWashington1732 said:
Judging by what I've seen this past year, most of the survival, prepper, tough guy crowd can't even handle the stress of sports being cancelled or wearing a mask at the grocery store without wimpering like a dog a bath time. So I'm going to say a foam LARP sword would probably be the best bet for this type of scenario. That way it will limit the discomfort from when it gets taken away shoved somewhere tender.
Click to expand...

 
look at the guys who used that stuff to stay alive. the romans, etc. weapons for different distances. bow/arrow for farther than 20 feet, a cold steel assegai for closer than 8 feet ( a fantastic medium range weapon for $80) and a sword for close quarters, and a dagger in case they get past your sword, and you should be covered :D
 
Nisaku 7.25 in. Japanese Hori Garden Landscaping Digging Tool with Stainless Steel Blade and Sheath

1. 9/10 of your time is going to be gardening and cutting things.
2. if you are urban and wearing one of your swords, big and wicked looking bowie knife, some one is going to take it away from you.
3. if you look like a gardener, no one is going to give you a second look.
4. $26.23 or $26.33 including tax and free shipping from Home Depot today.
5. if you take the time to study Japanese farming tools, you will never spend $1500 for custom Gladius or $150 for a wall hanger katana made of spring steel from a car and produced in the PRC. Another tool, use historically as a weapon in weapon restricted Japan was a simple hand sickle. Costs about $20 for the best recommended one.
6. you can make a black cast iron water pipe escrima stick for about $20 using Home Depot materials. No one will steal that from the floor of your car and will steal a fancy wooden tire thumper. You can make a hand held 6 inch yawara stick from pipe bought at Home Depot and carry it in your pocket. You can take a plain edge used screwdriver you were going to throw away and sharpen the blade, just like the homeless people carry.
7. If you insist on buying a knife, then it would be the Huntsman model of the Swiss Army knife because it has a wood saw and a pair of scissors. Then carry a 6 inch piece of narrow dowel as a yawara stick in your pocket.
8. Heck, I didn't have to postulate the hypothetical to do the foregoing. I have never been in the "look what I bought - and never have paid for a skills class crowd". In my world, friends of your kids will burglarize your home, your car will be broken into and things stolen, the airport inspectors will steal from your luggage.
9. I almost forgot. Look at the 18650 Sipik sk98 flashlight or one of its knock offs. It can go anywhere - on a plane, in your pocket, into a federal facility, into a bar that forbids firearms, into a nightclub or a sporting event where everyone is frisked, into to your bank- and even when
shtf a cop won't take it away from you.
 
Houlahound said:
I used to think this scenario was likely, so do many prepper types. Now that I am older and started delving into my own ethnic history I no longer believe your scenario is likely apart from a short term panic reaction.

My grandparents lived thru scenarios way worse than you have described and the exact opposite happened, in fact most of history refutes your scenario.

Folks instead tend to become more moral, more generous and more humane than they currently are now. Religion and tradition is the glue that circumvents the disaster you describe.

But still the answers is smatchet just for good measure.
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The people I am worried about (who presently seem to be the greatest threat to individuals and our republic and, unlike what vast majority of our ancestors delt with, are attacking from within) believe neither in Religion nor Tradition and would be happy to discard the constitution to usher in their collectivist utopia. Their willingness to tolerate violence as long as it propels them towards greater power is a dramatic change from their past...and it has happened in less then 20 years. I fear that only one side has a glue that binds them with like minded people of any race, religion, or gender. I've never been one to knee-jerk in the past over something like what we have witnessed in the past year with the pandemic scare and the shortages in things like toilet paper, some foods and guns/ammunitionce but while we were all dealing with all this an underlying movement has risen and it has all the hallmarks of a movement pushing revolutionary fervor supported by physical violence against anyone they deem "faschist" or just anyone who doesnt stand up and cheer when expected.
 
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Gh0zt36 said:
I know I know , most can't even conceive it happening never mind consider it a possibility in the coming years to fruition . " The military qill quash it / the police will quash it " but the fact is those on the blue side of things are considering abolishing / defunding police blah blah blah . And lets not forget whats been happening in the cities across america this year.

This thread is however not about that . I dont want to talk politics this isnt the forum for that . Instead a scenario proposed then tools one may need.

The year is 2021 . XXXXXX has won the presidency . There is unrest . After one side confronts the other there are now open clashes in the streets . Many police have fled to protect their families . Military has been deployed in population centers but in suburban / rural areas there isnt quite the stability due to less troops.

Folks have burned through much of their ammo . And now primitive weapons are being used .

What would be a real world edged tool to defend yourself while you forage for food / move through the landscape ?


I was considering a katana but many serious blades and especially Nihonto are ALOT of money . I have about a grand or so to throw at this unlikely scenario . It will need to be a weapon that is tough . Not something that is tough but may need to be reprofiled.

There are the thatsuki nihanto kumori , Hanwei Tori XL , Zombie tools apokatana . Or would a wakazashi or perhaps a machete be more appropriate ? Perhaps even a swamp rat waki or rodent rucki .

Other tool that may be more appropriate for real world primative CQB ?

What say you ??

I can hear the *sighhhhh* even before I hit "create thread" however we do seem to be in a very fragile state in 2020 and who is to say what is to come.

So I would respectfully request refraining of " this againnnnnnn" type posts and focus more on the scenario proposed .

Thanks .
Click to expand...

It seems to this is the topic and all of "politics, religion, or whatever else" are inherently part of the equation. It is a " this againnnnnnn" thread and now the nannys come forth to play moderation. Considering the administrator's requests after last month, one could simply choose not to add fuel to one's own profile.

Think about that.

GC
 
One could say even being a member of this forum is potentially making themselves a target for future repercussions, because certain individuals are incapable -or unwilling- of separating knives from the notion of violence.
 
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Surviving societal upheaval is generally less Mad Max and more temporary chaos followed by the reemergence of a power structure and reestablishment of supply chains for important resources and infrastructure, and community-based networks are the long-term solution once the initial violence from opportunists dies down. However, I designed my Kingfisher Machete some years ago as a dedicated combined defensive item and tool to perform much like artillery swords were used historically, with a modern context of use in mind. Not everyone can adequately use a firearm for defense under pressure, and so even if you had enough guns to hand out to everyone in your immediate circle you'd be making a potential liability for yourself. Meanwhile, the Kingfisher may be used for clearing ground for (and in the construction of) shelters, but is designed to provide sword-like performance qualities in a defensive role while being intuitive for complete laypersons. Let those experienced in proper usage of firearms be the ones to wield them when necessary and let everyone else have something sharp and practical that they can use to defend themselves with in a pinch, compared to having nothing.
 
Gh0zt36 said:
I know I know , most can't even conceive it happening never mind consider it a possibility in the coming years to fruition . " The military qill quash it / the police will quash it " but the fact is those on the blue side of things are considering abolishing / defunding police blah blah blah . And lets not forget whats been happening in the cities across america this year.

This thread is however not about that . I dont want to talk politics this isnt the forum for that . Instead a scenario proposed then tools one may need.

The year is 2021 . XXXXXX has won the presidency . There is unrest . After one side confronts the other there are now open clashes in the streets . Many police have fled to protect their families . Military has been deployed in population centers but in suburban / rural areas there isnt quite the stability due to less troops.

Folks have burned through much of their ammo . And now primitive weapons are being used .

What would be a real world edged tool to defend yourself while you forage for food / move through the landscape ?


I was considering a katana but many serious blades and especially Nihonto are ALOT of money . I have about a grand or so to throw at this unlikely scenario . It will need to be a weapon that is tough . Not something that is tough but may need to be reprofiled.

There are the thatsuki nihanto kumori , Hanwei Tori XL , Zombie tools apokatana . Or would a wakazashi or perhaps a machete be more appropriate ? Perhaps even a swamp rat waki or rodent rucki .

Other tool that may be more appropriate for real world primative CQB ?

What say you ??

I can hear the *sighhhhh* even before I hit "create thread" however we do seem to be in a very fragile state in 2020 and who is to say what is to come.

So I would respectfully request refraining of " this againnnnnnn" type posts and focus more on the scenario proposed .

Thanks .
Click to expand...
I put back 2 Rob Criswell swords , 1 28” and 1 20” set up on VTAC slings w/ HK hooks . I have a couple RMJ shrike 13’s set up on 2 shoulder rigs paired with Medford BOAs for up close, and personal quiet work. I’d rather sit back and and observe with my Larue Suppressed PredatOBR 308 w/ Leupold Mk5 HD3-18x but if it was a perfect world I wouldn’t need any of them. Different tools for different jobs...
 
I wouldn't like that every one would use military weapons.
We had 12 month of training and the drill was very strict. If you would make the smallest mistake "the chief" would sanction you and you wouldn't forget if for the rest of your life.
My fathers "Collins" machete is functional and robust.
For a rifle I would take a .22 bolt action. One shot one hit for hunting
We have our police and army as legal peace keepers
 
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deovolens said:
I wouldn't like that every one would use military weapons.
We had 12 month of training and the drill was very strict.....
Click to expand...

Yes, but how much of that was actually small arms use and maintenance? Most of the training would have been on teamwork, unit movement, suppression and assault fires, fire support and the like.

n2s
 
not2sharp said:
Yes, but how much of that was actually small arms use and maintenance? Most of the training would have been on teamwork, unit movement, suppression and assault fires, fire support and the like.

n2s
Click to expand...
That’s kind of the point. Anybody can point a firearm down range and make it go bang. Some are even pretty good at it, and the same principle applies to maintenance. But training people when not to shoot is just as important, unless all of these urban Rambos are completely solo and don’t care who or what is backstopping their targets.
 
BitingSarcasm said:
That’s kind of the point. Anybody can point a firearm down range and make it go bang. Some are even pretty good at it, and the same principle applies to maintenance. But training people when not to shoot is just as important, unless all of these urban Rambos are completely solo and don’t care who or what is backstopping their targets.
Click to expand...

Let's be honest, friendly fire is not limited or unique to urban "Rambo". It happens to just about everyone who is under stress; irrelevant of training, which is why police officers sometimes pump 400 rounds into a parked vehicle or shoot up a crowded sidewalk and the military frequently wipes out entire units with "friendly fire". In the civilian world we don't have clearly delineated fields of fire. But, it is an acceptable risk provided that we can reduce the frequency of incidents. The whole point is to deter crime.

n2s
 
Dumb question from a non millitary guy: why are millitary fanatics so obsessed and gushy about these machines with crazy high rates of fire of discrete projectiles. What is the strategic purpose and role compared to things that go boom.

The crazy rate rapid fire machines are hella expensive, more complex, need more maintenance, training...etc.

Here I am comparing to projectiles that explore which are generally lower tech, less training, maintenance ....etc and clearly way more efficient.

I thought the answer was precision but that is clearly not the case.
 
Houlahound said:
high rates of fire of discrete projectiles. What is the strategic purpose and role
Click to expand...

Opinion: Superior firepower and aggresive posture allows a group to control the tempo of the engagement. Fancy way of saying more rounds downrange equals more hits on target.
 
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