Lets Talk Swedges

d762nato

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Ok folks I have a few questions about swedge's on fixed blade knives. Why are their so many fixed blade knives made for the outdoors that have their swedges ground down like a false edge. I've noticed this on most Randall made knives and even on their hunting models. Now I see Fallkniven pro models also have this false edge grind on them also. I would think it would weaken the point with there being less steel in the swedge area or point. Why not just a flat grind with the swedge left unground? It just seems to me that a true knife meant to be used hard if need be in the outdoors wouldn't have a ground down swedge on it like say a Gossman or Siegle knife. :confused:
 
Note Randall's description of their Bushmaster:

"The heavy-duty top cutting edge is especially suited for purposes that would dull the regular edge. An excellent big game skinning knife."

Those false edges can be used for breaking bones, etc., saving your edge.
 
And the CS Outdoorsman...

"Its Japanese VG-1 San Mai III blade is further complimented by a bone breaker on the spine - which will keep your skinning edge keen by taking up the hardier processing tasks.."
 
Note Randall's description of their Bushmater:

"The heavy-duty top cutting edge is especially suited for purposes that would dull the regular edge. An excellent big game skinning knife."

Those false edges can be used for breaking bones, etc., saving your edge.
I can see what you mean I guess if the knife has enough thickness in the tip still.
 
I'm really thinking an outdoors type beating on wood and such type knife and not so much the skinning type knife although it will work for such if need be.
 
I can see it for hunting applications. But as a camp knife, a ground swedge eliminates the knife for my use.

I use my knife to baton, and that swedge destroys a baton quickly.

I also use the spine for striking a fire steel.

And use the sharp spine for scraping sticks to make sawdust.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
I can see it for hunting applications. But as a camp knife, a ground swedge eliminates the knife for my use.

I use my knife to baton, and that swedge destroys a baton quickly.

I also use the spine for striking a fire steel.

And use the sharp spine for scraping sticks to make sawdust.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
This is what I'm talking about. It just seems to me to be counter productive for a true camp outdoor type knife to have a ground down swedge, and you see it all the time on these camp and outdoor type knives being made. I just don't get it unless it's just for looks.
 
I can see it for hunting applications. But as a camp knife, a ground swedge eliminates the knife for my use.

I use my knife to baton, and that swedge destroys a baton quickly.

I also use the spine for striking a fire steel.

And use the sharp spine for scraping sticks to make sawdust.

And you have that sharp spine on those knives with false edges.
 
This is what I'm talking about. It just seems to me to be counter productive for a true camp outdoor type knife to have a ground down swedge, and you see it all the time on these camp and outdoor type knives being made. I just don't get it unless it's just for looks.

So Randall has been doing it "just for looks"? Since the 60s-70s?
 
From Randall Made Knives: The History of the Man and the Blades by Robert L. Gaddis, pp. 209-211

During the fall of 1962, shortly after Gary joined the shop as a full-time employee, Bo's son-in-law Bill Baker brought a good friend of his to the knifeshop. Norm Sherwood was an avid outdoorsman and resident of Colorado who was preparing for an extensive pack trip into the wilderness. He was familiar with the Randall line and liked the Alaskan Skinner design for the field-dressing of game, but for his impending wilderness outing he needed a more heavy-duty, all-around field and camp knife, one which could even be used to cut brush for a cooking fire as well as to field-dress game.

The style of knife he desired was unavailable, so Norm and Bo started sketching out ideas. Their final design showed a short blade with a well-rounded belly for skinning large game animals, while the top was shaped somewhat like a shallow, inverted "V." The foward portion of this top edge was sharpened, using a wide cutting angle, like those on a hand ax. This top cutting edge could be used for chopping brush or some of the heavier cutting chores necessary with a large game animal. Just ahead of the hilt, the blade top was thumb-notched, in the manner of Tommy Thompson's Model 11 Alaskan Skinner. The very sturdy, heavy-duty blade was to be made from the full thickness of 1/4-inch forging stock.

"He wanted a heavy-duty knife with the top edge sharpened so he could cut through sinew and ligaments with it, maybe small bones, and not ruin the good edge down below," was how Bo related the short story of this knife's origin. The name for this new knife was suggested by Bill Baker as soon as Norm and Bo had finished their design. It was termed "The Bushmaster" because its reason for being was Norm Sherwood's upcoming pack trip "into the bush," and that name has stuck with it ever since.

...While looking at the old photograph, ... Bo and I nicknamed this original style "The Tadpole," because of its fat-bellied, long-tailed appearance. Bo's comment was that "we liked it well enough that we adopted it, but it's not a pretty knife, and we just didn't sell an awful lot of them."

...Because of its moderate popularity, Bo kept seeing the knife in the shop and was always reminded of how displeased he was with its overall appearance.

...Sometime during the early months of 1964, Bo received a sketch and order for another "special order" knife that must have fueled his desire to modify the Bushmaster design. It seemed that Robert E. Carter, Jr., of Granite Mountain, Arkansas, had his own definite ideas about the style of a heavy-duty game preparation and field knife he wished to carry "in the bush." His design sketch showed a 1/4-inch blade of 4-inch stock, with a sharpened top cutting edge like the Model 19 Bushmaster. But Carter's blade wasn't as fat as the Bushmaster, with its cutting edge shaped more like the Model 11 Alaskan Skinner, and the blade top didn't rise up into the peaked, inverted "V" shape of the Bushmaster. Carter didn't want his knife to have a sharp point either, wishing the cutting edge to be carried around a well-radiused front end. For a handle, he chose one of Micarta with finger grips, similar to that shown on the Model 20 Yukon Skinner.... Carter finished off his special request knife with thumb notches ahead of the brass hilt and a compass set into the handle butt.

...Sometime in late 1965 or early 1966, Randall Knives changed the design of the Model 19 Bushmaster to a more pleasing shape, which would also render it more compatible with its other styles. It appears that Carter's special request knife figures prominently in this redesign effort.
 
So Randall has been doing it "just for looks"? Since the 60s-70s?
Heck No! I love Randalls and have owned a few in my day. I'd like to have a #25-5 actually. I just see a lot of knives that would work better if the swedge wasn't ground down imho. Thanks for chatting. ;)
 
Heck No! I love Randalls and have owned a few in my day. I'd like to have a #25-5 actually. I just see a lot of knives that would work better if the swedge wasn't ground down imho. Thanks for chatting. ;)

I get the batonning thing, and if you feel compelled to baton, the false edge can eat up a baton (of course its just a stick...one can get more), but beyond that, how does the false edge, in your opinion, negatively affect the function of these "hard use camp knives" you are talking about?
 
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