Let's talk washers

nickortizzle1035

nickortizzle1035

Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
1,125
So I have been trying to figure out what are the benefits to different materials when it comes to pivot washers. I used to think that most higher end knives used the phosphor bronze washers and cheaper brand stuck with nylon, but lately I have seen nylon and the bronze being used all over the spectrum. So what are the pros and cons of the different materials?
 
Phosphor bronze washers are self lubricating, but last quite a while, some people say Nylon is a slicker material but will wear down after a few years of usage. I prefer Nylotron which is a self lubricating nylon washer
 
I have knives with both kinds in one knife. I have recently tried Nylatron on a recommendation and have had great luck with it in my HTM DDR GH2. I replaced a nylon washer with a custom fitted Nylatron one and the blade is now dead centered and flips open with a much greater authority. My BM/Emerson Spec War uses Nylatron and it is liquid smooth. Conversely...my Chris Reeve knives use phosphor bronze and they are also smooth as glass. I would venture to say it really depends on the knife and materials surrounding the bushings as well.
 
is there a website that i can buy just the washers? i picked up a Extrema ratio MF2 and it has what looks to be nylon washers in it. i'd like to try out some of those nylatron washers on it. i wonder why they would use those washers on such an expensive folder?
 
I just picked up a Leatherman Skeletool CX which has a phosphorous bronze washer for the blade only which I thought was interesting.
 
You know what I don`t get? I cannot imagine WHY the HEST 2.0 folder uses teflon washers. Seriously 175$ and teflon washers. I could live with all the weaknesses the knife has, and I want to like it, but seriously. Teflon washers....
 
nickortizzle1035 said:
is there a website that i can buy just the washers? i picked up a Extrema ratio MF2 and it has what looks to be nylon washers in it. i'd like to try out some of those nylatron washers on it. i wonder why they would use those washers on such an expensive folder?
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google is your friend, but the usual places I go are texas knife makers supply and knifekits
 
My William Henry knives have Teflon washers. My Benchmade Gold class knives have bronze washers. They both work fine, although the bronze washers corrode and have to be polished occasionally.
 
nickortizzle1035 said:
is there a website that i can buy just the washers? i picked up a Extrema ratio MF2 and it has what looks to be nylon washers in it. i'd like to try out some of those nylatron washers on it. i wonder why they would use those washers on such an expensive folder?
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Smoother opening. A lot of the mid-high end Japanese production folders (Moki, Al Mar, Mcusta come to mind) use nylon or teflon washers for this reason. They also still last 5-6 years with proper care.
 
nickortizzle1035 said:
is there a website that i can buy just the washers? i picked up a Extrema ratio MF2 and it has what looks to be nylon washers in it. i'd like to try out some of those nylatron washers on it. i wonder why they would use those washers on such an expensive folder?
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My guess is that the people that designed and built the knife know more about engineering and materials than the average person off the street. That is where research and development comes into play. Most companies spends thousands of hours and $ making sure things are optimal. That being said, I highly doubt you will be able to tell the diffence between the washers. It's not what most would consider a "performance modification".
 
I'm a a believer that the washers are only part of the equation. I have had many knives with white nylon, dark Nylatron and PB and from what I have experienced is some knives with each washer type worked much better than another knife with the same washer type. Profound differences even, so when I realized that, I started paying more attention and I came to the partial conclusion (partial because I haven't been confirmed by an expert yet) that the surfaces the washers contact have a big impact on the pivoting performance too.

With frame locks you have G10 on one side a lot and Ti on the other, or both Ti. With linerlocks you could have G10, Ti or SS in some combination. And with different knives, you may have different levels of surface finish on these scale/liner materials. And I believe that all these factors have some impact on how the pivot performs, not just the washers.

You also may have some knives where the washer spins against the scale or liner material when opening while sticking to the tang (frcition aganist the tang) depending on the pivot screw tension, then you may have some knives that do the opposite and more favorably have the washer stick to the scale/liners and spin against the tang (no friction against the tang). I believe I have experienced all these factors on many knives and that is why I've seen a PB washers work amazing on one knife (almost like a bearing system) lwith zero side to side while performing terribly on another kanife using the same washer type.
 
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If I had my 'druthers, there'd be nothing but PB in my knives. But in real life, honestly...it is extremely unlikely to matter, ever. ;)
 
Man I dunno, IF I pulled out ALL my smoothest (best) "openers" and laid them out before me I would actually have knives with examples of every washer type named (popular mention) here. I think there is more to the design/engineering of the knife as a whole rather than an individual part.
I'd mention the knives but I think that would take this thread in a "knife brand Fanfest" direction.
Bottom line, more to the "feel" of opening than just the washer material.
 
I replaced the washer's on my Fallkniven PXL from teflon to p/b. Did so because I usually tighten my pivot a little more than most and was afraid it would tear the teflon as I have read some posts about this very thing happening. Before hand my PXL's blade was perfectly centered when closed, with the p/b washers it was off center just a smidgen, but enough to make an OCD knifeknut cringe! Another problem I ran into was with the opening. With the teflon it opened very smooth, even when I had it tight to my desired spot. With the p/b washers, I ended up with a seriously sore thumb!! I had miked the teflon washers, and got the p/b washers to the same dimension by sanding them on some 2000 grit wet/dry paper. I used a drop of miltec1 on it, then went back and took it off trying it without any, but it didn't seem to make much difference, still a sore thumb. In the end I went back to the teflon and it made my thumb feel a whole lot better!

A lot of the knives I buy now have p/b washers, and for the few that don't, I replace with p/b washers. But I've never had the trouble that I did with the PXL.
 
Art_Vandeley said:
You know what I don`t get? I cannot imagine WHY the HEST 2.0 folder uses teflon washers. Seriously 175$ and teflon washers. I could live with all the weaknesses the knife has, and I want to like it, but seriously. Teflon washers....
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I thought the same about the SR-1. Apparently Lion Steel (maker of the HEST) uses teflon and continues too. I did replace these with p/b and have had no problems since doing so.
 
I'm trying some home made Derlin wahsers in a Kershaw Half Ton folder. Derlin is a plastic with a low coefficient of friction, but not as low as teflon. It is harder than teflon and does not deform as easily.

Ric
 
I'm afraid some $600 to $900 street price knives are using the same white Nylon washers. Or close enough . . .
cutter17 said:
I thought the same about the SR-1. Apparently Lion Steel (maker of the HEST) uses teflon and continues too. I did replace these with p/b and have had no problems since doing so.
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