Lighters banned & matches restricted on airplanes

elvenbladesmith07 said:
just think. if i were a spy or some other covert guy, how would i hide my equipment to board this flight? sew a small pouch on the inside of your belt or but one of those belt buckles that have knives in them. ever c the t-handled knives from rambo 2? something like that will get past security maybe store flint with the knives and use the t-knife for sparking..
the only problem is that steels and sinthetic flints can be magnetic allowing them to find your goods!. try to buy things made of plastic and wierd alloys that wont pick up on the metal detectors.
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Tell ya what, you go right on ahead and try this foolish immature suggestion.

Maybe you can get on the prison computer and let us know how it works out for you.

Amazing.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
This may sound stupid, but couldn't the match or zippo be used to make a mini flame thrower? That could be very dangerous. And like some said (can't remember the name), if your plane crashs, fire is going to be you last thing to worry about.
 
elvenbladesmith07 said:
just think. if i were a spy or some other covert guy, how would i hide my equipment to board this flight? sew a small pouch on the inside of your belt ckles that or but one of those belt buhave knives in them. ever c the t-handled knives from rambo 2? something like that will get past security maybe store flint with the knives and use the t-knife for sparking..
the only problem is that steels and sinthetic flints can be magnetic allowing them to find your goods!. try to buy things made of plastic and wierd alloys that wont pick up on the metal detectors.
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This is so ignorent I can't beleive it. So let us take a point by point look at it.

"just think. if i were a spy or some other covert guy, how would i hide my equipment to board this flight?"

Act like a spy and you get treated like a spy. They shoot spies, or at least imprison them for a looonnng time.

"one of those belt buhave knives in them."

They check "buckles" if the reading is large enough. They tend to be hard to hide when someone knows what to look for. And speaking of readings...

"steels and sinthetic flints can be magnetic allowing them to find your goods!."

Modern detectors use an electric field. Any metal, magnetic or not, conducts electricity and can be "seen"

To the original question; If you crash and live, by the time you need fire, you should be able to dig out you luggage. If you are worried about a "Castaway" scene, have a Boy Scout Hotspark or Swedish fire steel on your key chain. Use wreckage or a sharp rock to make sparks.

However, I believe your remark was more an outrage of a new law, but a good excuse is still a poor reason. The NRA once argued that guns were needed for hunting. The Second Amenment has NOTHING to do with hunting. People have rights. One is to have guns. We don't need a reason BEYOND THAT. The same with small personal items. Taking them away is just being invasive to our rights. It doesn't matter if people care or don't mind, as it is still excessive interference.

BTW, can some one link to the new law?
 
pict said:
Jeff,
As stupid as the regs seem the TSA has the power of your future in their hands and they don't have to think. I see people all the time talk about how to circumvent the regs and they have no idea how it is to be on the other side of this issue for a few months and a few thousand dollars.
c
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Excellent points. Trying to dodge the regs is a sucker bet. In the end it'll just lead to more rules.

Whether a person survives a "mishap" or not is not likely to be effected much by rules. Knowledge, skill and will cannot be packed in a Altoids tin or confiscated. If you find yourself hobbling around a smoking fuselage and are even thinking about the necessity of fire you have the problem 90% beat.

(Pict, btw I've been there on those flights over SA jungles. I finally learned what "dark" meant staying in a Brazilian forest ;) )
 
x39 said:
Yeah, I'm feeling safer all the time. Here's a guy who is having a bit of sport with the powers that be: http://www.postgazette.com/pg/05058/462446.stm
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Hey,
I was reading that article about John Gilmore saying that more and more places are asking for a government issued ID of some type. Well a couple years ago I moved from Colorado to Washington State and when I tried to get a WA. drivers license by showing my CO. drivers license as ID the DMV here wouldn't take it. Said it was not considered a legal form of ID and I had to have a birth certificate or passport (funny, no photo on a birth certificate). They also wanted me to get a copy of the title to my car from the lean holder because they wouldn't accept my CO. registration. Has anyone else run into this in other state or is WA. just a seriously messed up state?
I told them to get bent, called the CO. DMV and got my new tags mailed to me as an out of state resident and kept my CO. license. I got it renewed just before I left and CO. does them for 10 years now. I'll be moving back before it expires.

Ric
 
Clint Simpson said:
Modern detectors use an electric field. Any metal, magnetic or not, conducts electricity and can be "seen"
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I don't know about this one. Last year a friend of mine got his knife on a flight from Cleveland to DC. It was a folder he made himself in the Elishawitz (sp) style with all titanium handles, his own lock design in titanium, with stainless screws and a stainless damascus blade 1/8"x4" and titanium pocket clip. Forgot he had it in his back pocket and walked right through. They didn't even catch it when they ran the wand over him. Said he about crapped himself when he realized he had it and was about to catch his wife before she got out of the airport. Gave it to her and went back through security to catch his flight.

Ric
 
RicBrannon said:
Hey,
I was reading that article about John Gilmore saying that more and more places are asking for a government issued ID of some type. Well a couple years ago I moved from Colorado to Washington State and when I tried to get a WA. drivers license by showing my CO. drivers license as ID the DMV here wouldn't take it. Said it was not considered a legal form of ID and I had to have a birth certificate or passport (funny, no photo on a birth certificate). They also wanted me to get a copy of the title to my car from the lean holder because they wouldn't accept my CO. registration. Has anyone else run into this in other state or is WA. just a seriously messed up state?
I told them to get bent, called the CO. DMV and got my new tags mailed to me as an out of state resident and kept my CO. license. I got it renewed just before I left and CO. does them for 10 years now. I'll be moving back before it expires.

Ric
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This is in response to a common trick used by illegal immigrants and othersto get legal identification. Because the state DMVs aren't linked (and linking them would be hugely expensive since they've all set themselves up differently) there is no system in place to check if an individual really has a drivers license from another state. Since you can't expect a DMV clerk to be able to correctly identify forged IDs from other States, people were coming over the border and buying fake IDs in say, Arizona, then going to a state where you wouldnt expect to see many Arizona licenses (say Washington) and trading in their fake Arizona license for a real Washington one. Passports are a good bit more expensive to obtain quality fakes of, plus there is only one format for DMV clerks to be familiar with. Birth certificates are also a hassle to get, if you've ever needed one replaced, it involves a visit to the county clerk etc. Ideally they should organize it so that the next time any DMV upgrades its systems, they upgrade to one that will cooperate with others, and I believe some States are moving in this direction.
 
BalefireX said:
This is in response to a common trick used by illegal immigrants and othersto get legal identification. Because the state DMVs aren't linked (and linking them would be hugely expensive since they've all set themselves up differently) there is no system in place to check if an individual really has a drivers license from another state. Since you can't expect a DMV clerk to be able to correctly identify forged IDs from other States, people were coming over the border and buying fake IDs in say, Arizona, then going to a state where you wouldnt expect to see many Arizona licenses (say Washington) and trading in their fake Arizona license for a real Washington one. Passports are a good bit more expensive to obtain quality fakes of, plus there is only one format for DMV clerks to be familiar with. Birth certificates are also a hassle to get, if you've ever needed one replaced, it involves a visit to the county clerk etc. Ideally they should organize it so that the next time any DMV upgrades its systems, they upgrade to one that will cooperate with others, and I believe some States are moving in this direction.
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I understand about the fake passport thing, it would be tuff to get one of those but the birth certificate. You can get those off the web for $5.00 that look just like the one I got at the hospital when I was born state seal and everything. A friend of mine lost hers a while back and was able to get a new one in the mail from Arkansas in about 15 days, $45.00 and her full name. There was no photo on it or even her foot print like you see on some and they didn't ask for a photo ID of any kind. I think birth certificates are pretty easy to fake.
And passports, all you need is the fake birth certificate you just got off the web. They don't check it. You fill out the form, put it with the birth certificate, a $50.00 check wait 10 to 20 days and it comes in the mail. That’s all I did but my birth certificate wasn't fake... ;-)

Ric
 
I think, however, that you have to be in their records to get a new birth certificate - this is to stop people who aren't in the records from getting themselves in the records illegitimately. Overall, you're right, however, no matter how much they do, determined individuals will be able to get around it and obtain the documentation they want... just like I believe that a determined individual would be able to smuggle whatever they wanted onto a plane, no matter how tight security was.
 
jackknife said:
I'm flying down to Key West in a month, can I take my Zippo if it is in checked bagage?

I was under the immpression if I put all my stuff in checked bagage it would go through. I'm a pipe smoker and I hate to be without my zippo.
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The answer is NO. Lighters are NOT allowed in either your carry-on or your checked luggage. Period. Full stop. The end.
 
Idiocy. Pure idiocy. I personally know guys who accidentally went through the "check points" with guns and knives. It happens all the time. This is silliness of the highest order. Knee-jerk legislation that will simply destroy business and create even more government dependency. More window dressing for the "we will protect you crowd". A terrorist who has a common sense plan will go through security very easily. The TSA know this, but they give the illusion we are safer so the average moron can get to where they're going while staring at the inflight movie and looking straight ahead, trying no to think the incorrect thoughts and avioding the evil thought crime of racial profiling. Very dumb decision by the TSA. It accomplishes nothing.

Welcome to Orwellville.

Want a sucessful small business? Smoke and lighter shop right outside the airport. Your path to financial independence!
 
Clearly they should classify terrorists as hazardous material and prohibit them. All so much more simple.

TLM
 
Gee, I could carry my shell collection and sharpen the edge of one....a 9v battery and steel wool.....use my slight-of-hand skills to make my knife 'disappear'....develop super powers to start a fire with my eyes.....
Put aside that I am even slightly paranoid, but let's hear from all the 'agents' lurking or simply enjoying this forum as much as all us 'everyday folks'. Y'all REALLY believe someone is not monitoring every stupid idea the mall ninjas post here and determining the merit level of it as a threat?
2 words. Whether we like it or not. Believe in it or not. Effective or not. Smokescreen or not....
1-Tighter 2-Restrictions. :(
 
RicBrannon said:
...Forgot he had it in his back pocket and walked right through. They didn't even catch it when they ran the wand over him. ...
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The first post is correct.

There are two different types of magnetometers: walk-through and hand-held.

Walk-throughs generally work the best, in that they generate a fairly strong EM field. When nearly any type of metal passes through an EM field, an electrical current is generated--this is what triggers the 'ping.'

A hand-held detector is a true metal detector, but tends to generate very low fields. You have to be right on top of the object to detect it (they're very weak, compared to a walk-through). Often, rebar in the floor throws off false-positives, so a lot of security personnel have to dial down the sensitivity even further.

A large frame handgun is obvious to a wand; a titanium knife (which is a light metal) could easily slip past even if they were smacking the wand against it. Doesn't surprise me. I assume if they were wanding him, the walk-through already registered the knife, but the followup check with the wand showed nothing.
 
German airport security, while intimidating, was very professional. The wand went everywere and if there was any 'ping', the hand followed. A touch here to verify a necklace chain or there for a bluejean rivet. My belt buckle verified to be only a buckle ( they had me open it). Between pings the other hand touched here and there on the small of the back, back of the knees, finger along the beltline, armpits, ankles and etc. It was over in less than 30 seconds. I was not insulted or felt violated but I knew I had been as thoroughly searched as may be expected with my clothes on.
I don't screw with people who can screw me worse. Just doesn't make sense.
 
From the press release "The Department of Transportation classifies lighters as hazardous materials, and prohibits them from being stowed in checked baggage."

The TSA is implementing the new reg that says you can't have them onboard the aircraft. Apparently the DOT had already prohibited them in checked luggage. I never knew that. Checked ferrocium seems to be OK. Mac
 
elvenbladesmith07 said:
just think. if i were a spy or some other covert guy, how would i hide my equipment to board this flight? sew a small pouch on the inside of your belt or but one of those belt buckles that have knives in them. ever c the t-handled knives from rambo 2? something like that will get past security maybe store flint with the knives and use the t-knife for sparking..
the only problem is that steels and sinthetic flints can be magnetic allowing them to find your goods!. try to buy things made of plastic and wierd alloys that wont pick up on the metal detectors.
Click to expand...

That sound like a really good way to get yourself a criminal record. Ignorance is one thing and they respond to that with confiscation, which I feel is unfair but whatever. Actually going out of tour way to hide tools (weapons to them) will get you very arrested and in a heap of trouble. It just not worth it. The Lost scenario is total BS anyway. When was the last time you heard of a plane crash in a desolate are with survivors? Put the stuff in you check in luggage if you need to have it at your destination.
Survival is after all about skills, not tools.
 
Watchful said:
I assume if they were wanding him, the walk-through already registered the knife, but the followup check with the wand showed nothing.
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No, it didn't set off the walk through they were just wanding everyone and picking people at random to remove and check shoes. A couple years ago I flew from Denver to Anchorage and they did the same thing, you stepped through the walk through detector onto a thick rubber mat and they wanded you. If they got a beep from the wand they pulled you aside to check you further. But they were wanding everyone not just if the walk through went off. They did a bomb swab on my shoes because I asked them to check some film by hand. Told me it was procedure anytime someone asks for a hand check.

Ric
 
RicBrannon said:
No, it didn't set off the walk through they were just wanding everyone and picking people at random to remove and check shoes. A couple years ago I flew from Denver to Anchorage and they did the same thing, you stepped through the walk through detector onto a thick rubber mat and they wanded you. If they got a beep from the wand they pulled you aside to check you further. But they were wanding everyone not just if the walk through went off. They did a bomb swab on my shoes because I asked them to check some film by hand. Told me it was procedure anytime someone asks for a hand check.
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That's interesting, procedurally. The sensitivity must have been turned waaay down on both. Probably TSA was getting annoyed by the shrill beeps.

I've experienced the shoe/wand thing myself; it would have been funny if the consequences hadn't been so serious. Just what did they think they were looking for? Odds are, they didn't know... just following protocol from a half-understood policy memo.

Interesting story, Ric! Thanks.
 
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