Lightweight Canoes

[Wabajack]

Look at a Bell before you decide. Better yet, find a local demo-day and take several for a test paddle. You might even fall in like with a Bell MeWolf designed or built.

The Bells look bloody good! I can’t believe I missed that :whacks forehead:

None of these boats will fit your criteria. They are too small! At 250 plus gear you will be VERY unhappy. Look for a boat in the 14 foot range + or-

Sorry for the confusion, 250 lbs would be the maximum that would ever enter the canoe. I’m about 190~ and my packs are 30-40~ lbs depending on the duration of the trip (Does this change anything?). I will definitely take you advice to heart when deciding. :thumbup:

Paddle as many as you can, THEN decide. I don't buy a car til I test drive it. JMO

I definitely intend to! Right now I am really just trying to find a direction to go in. Your advice is greatly appreciated and is definitely helping to send me in the right direction.

I’m going to try and find a place near me where I can get a feel for as many of the canoes as possible, I’ll most likely be looking for something in the 14’/30 lbs range, thanks to all your guys great advice.

BTW, I am leaning towards the Bell Yellowstone (#1) and the Hemlock SRT. Still those damn mini canoes are so appealing .

 

[runningboar]

BTW, I am leaning towards the Bell Yellowstone (#1) and the Hemlock SRT. Still those damn Mini canoes are so appealing .

I love the yellowstone, it was a toss up between it and my prospecter, the prosecter had more capacity, 2 person, and more rocker so I went with it.

The mini canoes may look appealing, til you try to paddle the damn thing. As I stated earlier it very well may be me and not the boat but I have never sat in anything under 14' that I enjoyed paddling. Chris

 

[Codger_64]

The Yellowstone is a Royalex version of the old Wildfire kevlar design. I paddled one on flat water once. It was great but... the demo was on an open bay in Pensacola. When the wind got up, the waves got up. This design has no keel, so tracking required constant work with the paddle. And also there was not much, if any tumblehome. With the wind and slight chop, it made for a wet ride.

Consider too, while you might initially use the canoe on calm lakes and ponds, as your skill increases, likely your taste for adventure will as well. And you will be attracted to class I or II moving water. Royalex is good on rocky or gravel shoal streams, but manuvering, to me anyway, on faster water is easier done with at least a slight keel, and dryer with a bit of tumblehome. That is where the gunnels are narrower than the widest part of the canoe above the waterline. Be sure to try the Prospector mentioned by Chris above.

Codger

 

[Mick57]

The Bells look bloody good! I can’t believe I missed that :whacks forehead:



Sorry for the confusion, 250 lbs would be the maximum that would ever enter the canoe. I’m about 190~ and my packs are 30-40~ lbs depending on the duration of the trip (Does this change anything?). I will definitely take you advice to heart when deciding. :thumbup:



I definitely intend to! Right now I am really just trying to find a direction to go in. Your advice is greatly appreciated and is definitely helping to send me in the right direction.

I’m going to try and find a place near me where I can get a feel for as many of the canoes as possible, I’ll most likely be looking for something in the 14’/30 lbs range, thanks to all your guys great advice.

BTW, I am leaning towards the Bell Yellowstone (#1) and the Hemlock SRT. Still those damn Mini canoes are so appealing .

The SRT is a great tripping boat & D. Curtis came out with a new solo this year called the eaglet, a scaled down solo version of his Eagle tandem. I'm gonna stop by & try the Eaglet myself when I get a chance, as I like the specs on it. You might also like either of his Falcon series. I paddled the Peregrine & liked it alot.
Bell's are nice too. See if you can find a Merlin to try.....think you'll be happy with it. I paddle a Magic now & it's a great boat. Hard tracking & fast, it's a joy to paddle at 16' & 37lbs on small lakes where I paddle most often. It's a little narrow though, as it's only about 23" at the gunwales. But that's part of what makes it what it is. If you're not used to it, you can feel a bit cramped in it compared to other boats. But with plenty of tumblehome, it has very good stability (both primary & secondary) for such a narrow boat.
After trying alot of boats the last few years, I decided I liked solo boats in the 16' range the best for my needs. Try enough of them & you should settle in on what length works for you. Then it'll get a little easier to narrow down your choices to a few that you like.

 

[Mulder]

All of the above is good advice.
Try as many as you can.
Also consider a used boat.
I bought a used Blackhawk Starship and it's my favorite.
Swift makes a nice boat.
http://www.swiftcanoe.com/canoe/solo/

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

dave

 

[fnc]

Hey all,

I was hoping someone around here might know of a good one person canoe that weighs in at around 20 lbs? It will also need to hold around 250 lbs (me and my gear).

I have been looking around the 'interweb' and haven't had any luck, there are just to many out there to sift through.

Cheers,
~ Wabajack

It might help us understand if you described your environment, and what
kind of water you paddle on. I assume Ontario has mostly flat water with
very little class 2 needed. Some portages, but how long?
This would rule out rubber-ducky materials, unless you like to paddle
rock gardens at low water.

Why do you want the extreme new technology, other than the natural human
tendency to want gee-whiz high-performance? Sometimes the extreme gear
has serious drawbacks that are apparent only after you have used it.

Is your plan to portage the boat and gear at once? If so, why? Avoid bears?

If you weigh 190 now, you may weigh 210 in a few years. Also 45 lbs of
gear is a backpacker type load, so no traditional canoe gear, like ax and
bigger tent etc. So, point being, your gear might weigh more than 45 lbs.

With more weight, you might need a 14 foot boat minimum.

Pictures of a guy paddling 12 foot canoe with no gear can be very
misleading. These are fun-on-pond boats, not big enough for
week-end paddling. Longer trips or wilderness, no way.

Edit

IMO, many good makers cheat on weight of Kevar canoes by not putting
a final gel-coat or paint-type finish. So light penetrates, to the Kevlar and
can degrade it.

Adjustable (for and aft) seat is a very nice feature for changing the weight
distribution almost instantly. When wind direction changes, or course changes,
you need to be able to change weight distribution.

I do not trust the capacity ratings of canoe makers. Rated at 650 lbs,
with how much free board? If you do not have some extra free board,
you risk swamping and you cannot roll the canoe to make an easier turn.

A little tumble-home probably helps the above; but, if the canoe is too low in
the water, you got a big risk.

 

[Codger_64]

Consider also that solo canoes, for the most part, can only be paddled solo while a tandem canoe can be paddled tandem or solo. I know it goes against the wisdom of the "saffron robed ones of canoedom", but I... well...

"Hey! Look at the dork paddling the canoe backwards!" "Yeah, isn't that strange!"

By seating yourself in the bow seat facing the stern, you place yourself closer to the center of the canoe and, for me at least, have better control, and the canoe is easier to keep on course with less problems with crosswinds. It also makes it easier for me to trim the canoe because I can reach my packs and shift them on the fly. If I were seated in the stern, my packs would have to be nearer the bow seat, and I would be high centered a lot more on logs, rocks, and gravel shoals. My canoes are basically symmetrical so paddling them backwards does not really affect performance when touring or wilderness tripping. A 17 footer gives me room for two adults and gear for a week. Or myself solo with gear and supplies for two weeks with plenty of freeboard in both instances.

Codger

 

[jackknife]

Consider also that solo canoes, for the most part, can only be paddled solo while a tandem canoe can be paddled tandem or solo. I know it goes against the wisdom of the "saffron robed ones of canoedom", but I... well...

"Hey! Look at the dork paddling the canoe backwards!" "Yeah, isn't that strange!"

By seating yourself in the bow seat facing the stern, you place yourself closer to the center of the canoe and, for me at least, have better control, and the canoe is easier to keep on course with less problems with crosswinds. It also makes it easier for me to trim the canoe because I can reach my packs and shift them on the fly. If I were seated in the stern, my packs would have to be nearer the bow seat, and I would be high centered a lot more on logs, rocks, and gravel shoals. My canoes are basically symmetrical so paddling them backwards does not really affect performance when touring or wilderness tripping. A 17 footer gives me room for two adults and gear for a week. Or myself solo with gear and supplies for two weeks with plenty of freeboard in both instances.

Codger

Very, very, true words!

For years we had canoes untill we switched to kayaks in 2001. When I was out by myself I'd take out Old Town Pathfinder and paddle from the bow seat facing aft. It worked out very well like codger said. My pack and fishing gear were right in fron of me, and it was easier to handle the boat from nearer center. And the royalex was bombproof.

Maybe give this a thought- an Old Town Pack is 12 foot long, has a 500 pound capacity, and only weighs 33 pounds, and can be used with a double bladed paddle. It a great one man canoe for a very wide varitety of missions. Easy to transport, not ridicously expencive, rugged as hell, and can hold a weeks gear for one person plus dog. When we sold our Pathfinder and 16 foot camper, we kept the pack just because it was so versitile.

 

[Wabajack]

Consider too, while you might initially use the canoe on calm lakes and ponds, as your skill increases, likely your taste for adventure will as well. And you will be attracted to class I or II moving water.

Very good point and something I will have to factor into my canoe purchase.

The SRT is a great tripping boat & D. Curtis came out with a new solo this year called the eaglet, a scaled down solo version of his Eagle tandem. I'm gonna stop by & try the Eaglet myself when I get a chance, as I like the specs on it. You might also like either of his Falcon series. I paddled the Peregrine & liked it alot.

Hemlock canoes right now might be my best option, I have been calling around and have found a source for them relatively near to me, so I’ll have to go check em’ out.

It might help us understand if you described your environment, and what
kind of water you paddle on. I assume Ontario has mostly flat water with
very little class 2 needed. Some portages, but how long?

The canoe will be mostly be used on calmer waters in the backcountry for traveling into the wilderness for up to 2 week stays. I don’t expect to have to travel class 2 water very often, not any time soon at least.

Why do you want the extreme new technology, other than the natural human
tendency to want gee-whiz high-performance?

If your referring to modern materials for the canoes, it’s just the weight and strength benefits.

Is your plan to portage the boat and gear at once? If so, why? Avoid bears?

Nope.

If you weigh 190 now, you may weigh 210 in a few years. Also 45 lbs of
gear is a backpacker type load, so no traditional canoe gear, like ax and
bigger tent etc. So, point being, your gear might weigh more than 45 lbs.

The Hemlock SRT (for example) is one of the canoes being more specifically looked into and has an efficient load of 400 lbs and overall length of 15‘, so I should be sufficiently covered, right?

Thanks for all the great help I think I have narrowed down what I am looking for, now I just need to go out and play around with some until I find the one that suits me.

Cheers,
~ Wabajack

 

[runningboar]

If your referring to modern materials for the canoes, it’s just the weight and strength benefits.

I highly recommend royalex, it may be a bit heavier but it is hell for tough, fairly light, and most of all much, much cheaper. I love the sexy kevlar and carbonfiber canoes and if I ever win the lottery I will own several, but if I am going on a week long wilderness trip I will take the robustness of royalex everytime. You get a canoe below 30 pounds and you better be careful with it, I don't care what it is made of. Chris

 

[Guntotin_fool]

build your own, find the book "building ultra light canoes" by tom hill.

I have built a few, some incredibly light ones, and they are tough and strong, far stronger than people can understand....

A 30 pound canoe that take all you can throw at it is not out of the realm of possiblity.

I built two that weighed under 20 pounds and will handle a 200 pound load no problem. both used 3mm plywood with a layer of glass.

 

[runningboar]

build your own, find the book "building ultra light canoes" by tom hill.

I have built a few, some incredibly light ones, and they are tough and strong, far stronger than people can understand....

A 30 pound canoe that take all you can throw at it is not out of the realm of possiblity.

I built two that weighed under 20 pounds and will handle a 200 pound load no problem. both used 3mm plywood with a layer of glass.

I would love to see some picures, a 20 pound canoe that paddles well and can bounce off a rock would be a geat thing indeed. Do you sell these that you make? Chris

 

[Guntotin_fool]

No i do not sell them, but i had a 9 footer i built for my son that weighed about 14 pounds blow off the roof rack, (I had tied down mine and he was getting a soda, I asked it if was good to go, and he just nodded) it bounced down the road about 40 mph till it skidded to a stop, the sheer clamp had cracked, but the hull was sound, and with a new sheer clamp (thats the long piece of wood at the gun'wale,)installed it was almost as good as new.

Now i am not taking these out and running the Colorado or the Alagash, but I am taking them to the boundary waters or the St Croix river and grounding them out on the occasional rock or ledge does not hurt them. They are not meant to be abused but they are way tougher than one would expect.

Look up Tom Hill, boatbuilder. he has a website.

 

[mewolf1]

The woodstrip canoe is actually a composite boat, it's just that you can see the core material. Fiberglass is a very repairable material too and by the time you finish building one you will have all the knowhow to do any repair it needs.
They weigh about the same as many other composite boats and are fun to build; in fact, before you are half done you'll be planning your next one, it's addicting.

I swiped this off the net.

 

[desmobob]

Bell's are nice too. See if you can find a Merlin to try.....think you'll be happy with it. I paddle a Magic now & it's a great boat. Hard tracking & fast, it's a joy to paddle at 16' & 37lbs on small lakes where I paddle most often. It's a little narrow though, as it's only about 23" at the gunwales. But that's part of what makes it what it is. If you're not used to it, you can feel a bit cramped in it compared to other boats. But with plenty of tumblehome, it has very good stability (both primary & secondary) for such a narrow boat.

Mick57,

How do you paddle your Magic... sitting or kneeling?

I have a carbon/Kevlar Bell Northwind that I absolutely love. I also paddle a Mad River Eclipse (got second place in the one man open canoe class in the Hudson River Whitewater Derby with it a few years back). Last year I bought a Magic. I'm an experienced paddler and 6'2" 240lbs. I am just not quite happy with the stability. I crossed the line between paddling and swimming twice in the big waves of Lake George the first season. (And you can not make a wet entry in a Magic; at least I can't.) I added a foot brace to the boat and I'm thinking of lowering the seat an inch or two. Or, maybe raising the seat as high as possible to allow kneeling, although I doubt I could get my size 15 feet under the seat even if the seat was mounted right below the gunwales. I do prefer to kneel though. The Magic is a little rocket and a sweet paddling boat.

Anyway, Wabajack --

By all means, try to paddle any canoe you're thinking of purchasing. Around my neck of the woods, that's possible at some dealers. We also have a big annual "paddlefest" in the area where you can try out almost any boat imagineable. It's worth finding just the right canoe for you. The right boat can be a lifelong love.

Stay sharp,
desmobob

 

[Mick57]

Mick57,

How do you paddle your Magic... sitting or kneeling?

I have a carbon/Kevlar Bell Northwind that I absolutely love. I also paddle a Mad River Eclipse (got second place in the one man open canoe class in the Hudson River Whitewater Derby with it a few years back). Last year I bought a Magic. I'm an experienced paddler and 6'2" 240lbs. I am just not quite happy with the stability. I crossed the line between paddling and swimming twice in the big waves of Lake George the first season. (And you can not make a wet entry in a Magic; at least I can't.) I added a foot brace to the boat and I'm thinking of lowering the seat an inch or two. Or, maybe raising the seat as high as possible to allow kneeling, although I doubt I could get my size 15 feet under the seat even if the seat was mounted right below the gunwhales. I do prefer to kneel though. The Magic is a little rocket and a sweet paddling boat.

Anyway, Wabajack --

By all means, try to paddle any canoe you're thinking of purchasing. Around my neck of the woods, that's possible at some dealers. We also have a big annual "paddlefest" in the area where you can try out almost any boat imagineable. It's worth finding just the right canoe for you. The right boat can be a lifelong love.

Stay sharp,
desmobob

desmo,
First thing I did when I bought it (used, but like new) was raise the seat so I could kneel. I like the option of paddling both ways so my legs aren't always locked into one position. I called Bell & ordered the short seat brackets & also asked the guy if raising the seat higher would affect the stability. He said it wouldn't & was right. I'm 5'9" & 175lbs & wear a size 11 shoe. I can get my feet under the seat pretty good, as I always remove my sandals when I get going. I really don't think you'd be able to tuck your feet comfortably (if at all) with those 15's, but I may be wrong. You might be able to possibly do it if you eliminated the seat brackets altogether, but I still have my doubts. I'd try it though & see how it works. My guess is your only option would be go lower as you suggested & see if that helped in the big waves. I would think it would somewhat, but how much is hard to say. I can't say I've been in any big waves like you have, as my paddling is done primarily on small lakes, which are generally pretty calm.
I love the Magic, (rocket indeed) but now I've got my eye on Hemlock's new Eaglet model. I like everything about it & probably will have one built for Spring delivery. Dave Curtis makes beautiful boats & I'm very fortunate to be close to his shop.
BTW, that Northwind is a sweet boat too & must be light as hell in that layup.
Good luck with the Magic. Sounds like you're ready for the 90 miler in the Adirondacks.

 

[Guntotin_fool]

Tom Hill boats are not stripper boats, but plywood lapstrake often using skins as thin as 3mm plywood. I know a guy who built one for fun using aircore, that papercoated foam that architects use for models. That boat was feather light, but still usable. It got a single coat of lighweight glass and epoxy in and out, using the aircore as core material.

 

[desmobob]

desmo,
First thing I did when I bought it (used, but like new) was raise the seat so I could kneel. <SNIP>

I love the Magic, (rocket indeed) but now I've got my eye on Hemlock's new Eaglet model. I like everything about it & probably will have one built for Spring delivery. Dave Curtis makes beautiful boats & I'm very fortunate to be close to his shop.
BTW, that Northwind is a sweet boat too & must be light as hell in that layup.
Good luck with the Magic. Sounds like you're ready for the 90 miler in the Adirondacks.

I generally prefer to paddle from a kneeling position. I bought a kneeling thwart to install in my Northwind so it would be more comfortable to paddle solo. I glued kneeling pads in place for both seating positions and in the center for solo paddling in my Mad River Eclipse. I'll have to do some serious experimenting with the Magic to find what works best. I did send an e-mail to Bell to get their opinion.

As for the 90-miler, I'd love to paddle it! I almost had my neighbor talked into entering a few years back. I'm a bachelor and lack the support crew necessary to pull it off. One of these days....

I have an old Navy girlfriend out in Rochester. When I get out there to visit, I'll take a spin down to the Hemlock shop and take a look. Interesting stuff....

Stay sharp,
desmobob

 

[Codger_64]

Old knees keep me from paddling in a kneeling position for long periods. I paddle from the seat until I reach a drop or obsticle that requires some maneuvering, then kneel on foam pads behind the center thwart. My feet are clear of the seat. It does often help to lower your CG, and spraeding your knees to the chines lets you make full use of the freeboard in leaning.

I know a lot of people tuck their feet under the seat, but a little voice constantly whispers to me...entrapment! It is the same reason my painters are coiled and secured to the end decks, not tossed loose in the bottom of the canoe. Same idea about tying things to myself or my vest.

Codger

 

[desmobob]

Old knees keep me from paddling in a kneeling position for long periods. I paddle from the seat until I reach a drop or obsticle that requires some maneuvering, then kneel on foam pads behind the center thwart. My feet are clear of the seat. It does often help to lower your CG, and spraeding your knees to the chines lets you make full use of the freeboard in leaning.

I know a lot of people tuck their feet under the seat, but a little voice constantly whispers to me...entrapment! It is the same reason my painters are coiled and secured to the end decks, not tossed loose in the bottom of the canoe. Same idea about tying things to myself or my vest.

Codger

I know what you mean about the old knees! After finishing the Hudson River Whitewater Derby 7 1/2-mile downriver race, I couldn't stand up to get out of my boat. I had to flop onto the bank and lay there for about 15 minutes before I could get up. I guess it wasn't so much knee trouble as it was my legs being "asleep."

A tight fit of the feet under the seat makes me nervous, too. I use my canoes a lot during duck season and my big wader boots make my already-big feet even bigger. On one hand, I think it would be better to sit with legs outstretched and paddle without risk of entrapment in a turn-over, but on the other hand, I think that kneeling (I'm usually paddling with an inexperienced paddler) will provide the extra stability and control to avoid a problem in the first place. Tough call, really....

Stay sharp,
desmobob